Bees not foraging

asol · Jul 29, 2012

Only had my bees since early June so looking for some advice.

I had to performed an AS just over two weeks ago.

The hive with the original queen and flyers seems to be doing fine however the hive supposedly with the virgin queen seems to have 'gone off the boil' over the last week.
It was active to begin with but for the last week the activity in terms of bees flying in and out has decreased daily. I would have thought that as the house bees are maturing I'd get more activity. I'm reluctant to check them due to the timing of the virgin queen. I don't actually know the true status of the queen as I haven't seen one but there was a queen cell left at the time of the AS.
I've checked inside the hive once, a few days ago, and there appears to be quite a few drones and stores ( I am feeding them 1:1 syrup) and also still some brood left. There are about 6 frames of bees, they were good natured, even without smoke. In the good weather we've had they are also drawing out foundation in the super above so it seems they are doing something.

Why has the foraging activity declined? I imagine the queen situation would upset their daily routine. Shall I just hang on for a couple of weeks until the queen hopefully sorts herself out?
Is feeding them causing them to get lazy or should I continue to feed?
Many thanks.

oliver90owner · Jul 29, 2012

Firstly, don't feed unless they are low on stores. It is an utter waste of money for a start, if they don't actually need it.

If you did the A/S correctly, the flying bees from that hive would have been decimated just before the queen emerged.

The cause of the swarming preparations may have coincided with congestion in the brood box (as in laying space) so the amount of brood could have been declining for three weeks or more.

Six frames of bees is likely little stronger than a good nuc.

Feeding bees tempts them to draw wax for the storage of said feed - again a fairly irelevant exercise IMO. More bees used for an alternative function.

You need to consider all these factors, address the feeding as appropriate and you may notice a difference, or at least understand whether this is a bee problem or just a man-made diversion.

RAB

For want of a better word · Jul 29, 2012

some seem to just dwindle away..... time to recombine with original hive?... with the season being so bad a stronger colony would have more chance of getting through to next spring.

to filter out the queen and ... at this time of year.. useless drones, put a qe over the page of the FT below your dwindling colony on recombination..

better luck next year!!

asol · Jul 29, 2012

Thanks for the advice.
The impact of not feeding always appears more tragic than the implication of feeding hence the decision to feed. Perhaps I'll remove the feed and see what happens.
Icanhopit:
I understand your sentiment entirely and perhaps whatever the outcome of the virgin queen the best solution would be to combine for a stronger overwintering colony.
My concerns for doing it now is that I doubt my ability to search for and eliminate a possible virgin queen. I like my original queen and wouldn't want her to fall victim to an unknown entity. I also consider that I may have a few weeks of opportunity left to see if this hive comes good. If indeed it does come good then I could combine later with even more bees, if it doesn't produce brood then I don't think I've lost anything.

oliver90owner · Jul 29, 2012

The impact of not feeding always appears more tragic than the implication of feeding hence the decision to feed. Perhaps I'll remove the feed and see what happens.

No, no, no!

Please read what I wrote!

don't feed unless they are low on stores..... address the feeding as appropriate

Leave out the 'perhaps' and check for stores. Make your decision on observations, not whims, perhaps or maybes.

It is a simple matter to find out first, before taking action. There should be no risk of a tragic outcome - every inspection should include the question of 'is there enough stores until the next inspection?'. It is a routine part of beekeeping.

Actually I doubt they are short of forage at this time. There is no brood to feed. Forage requirements are low. I am peplexed as to why there should be a super on the parent colony in this situation. If you followed the normal Padgen A/S procedure, there would not be one unless they were foraging well and you say there are only six frames of bees.

The first priority ought to be to get the two new foundation frames in the brood box drawn.

asol · Jul 29, 2012

Rab.

For clarity, the word perhaps was used (in error) to convey my own thoughts to myself on the matter. 'Perhaps it was a mistake to feed since the inspection, I'll remove the feed and see what happens.'
My inspection was prompted by the declining activity but since there appears to be ample stores I'll follow your advice and remove the syrup.
It wasn't meant to be a indefinite phrase although it was incorrectly written as one.

As regards the super, this requires a more detailed explanation of the AS.
22/6/12 Took delivery of 5 frame nuc, hived it and it continued to expand nicely.
5/7/12 Added a super to my one and only expanding colony in BB as it looked quite full. 6-7 frames of brood, bees occupying approx 75% of frames.
12/7/12 It swarmed. (poor inspection technique means I missed the QC). This swarm settled for a few minutes and went back into the hive.
13/7/12. Performed AS, put queen and 2 frames of brood into brood box on original spot. Filled up BB with foundation. Added super to this swarm hive. Removed (as I thought) all QC except one sealed one in parent hive. Placed hive about 4m away and added 1:1 syrup.
23/7/12 Parent hive swarmed, settled in a cluster on a tree for about 20 mins then went back into parent hive. I then destroyed all remaining QC but didn't know if they would have exhausted their swarming urge. I figured they swarmed again due to the number of bees in a small space so I gave them more room in the shape of a super to encourage them to stay.
27/7/12 Had fewer and fewer bees (orientation and foraging) generally coming out of parent hive so quickly had a look, about 4 empty queen cups, 1 frame of sealed brood, adequate stores. Drawing foundation on super. no queen seen but frames are quite full with bees and didn't want to take too long about it due to possible mating of queen.
Today however I have noticed more bees than the last few days, mostly orientation flights but also some bringing in pollen so something seems to have changed.

Swarm hive doing well, queen OK, activity good, eggs etc.