beekeeping professionally

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't know why but I've suddenly got the urge to have gammon and chips for my tea

 

[ericbeaumont]

I just don't understand why.

Put a 12oz hex next to a 1lb round. Not a huge difference, is there? To the customer it's a big jar, and one which they're familiar with in every other retail source in the land. Nobody sells in 1lb jars apart from beekeepers! I just don't understand why!

1lb @ £10 = £0.625/oz. 12oz @ £10 = £0.833/oz. On top of that, hex sells better as it shows off the honey.

Beekeeping tradition and selling in a modern market inhabit two different worlds, and if we choose tradition we'll get the same low return for a big jar we've had since, well, forever.

 

[ericbeaumont]

price point is the issue not the volume the product is sold.

I sell at £12/lb but if I sold in 1lb jars few would hand over £12 because double figures convey the perception of expensive; on the other hand a 340 @ £9 will not have the same outcome. For this reason choice of jar volume is crucial to consistent sales at a top price.

 

[monarda]

I sell at £12/lb but if I sold in 1lb jars few would hand over £12 because double figures convey the perception of expensive; on the other hand a 340 @ £9 will not have the same outcome. For this reason choice of jar volume is crucial to consistent sales at a top price.

I fully appreciate what you are saying with you being a commercial concern and if you can get those sort of prices good luck to you.I'm afraid that I and my few hives are coming from a rather different place. I keep bees because its something I love doing (despite my woeful lack of ,but hopefully increasing knowledge) and should I have a surplus of honey after putting enough aside for myself ,family and friends, I sell from the garden gate with an honesty box ( that so far has never abused ) to people of the village passing by. If I'm lucky to make enough to pay for my beekeeping bits and pieces,buy my veg seed and pay for the odd day out fishing -I am a very happy man indeed . I couldn't and wouldn't ask those sort of prices -thats a completely different ball game and must admit that Im not sure why some on this forum get so upset by us "hobby" beekeepers selling the odd "under priced" lb jar-surely this poor old crazy world of ours is big enough for all?

 

[monarda]

My hex jars are 3/4 lb .. 12 oz. I really don't think your point holds water - either in pints, quarts, gallons, firkins, rundlets, tierce, hogsheads or barrique and a few odd sizes in between !

You are obliged under current EU regulations to declare weights in metric ..why else would you have 454gm jars ?

Whilst you are at it ... why is carpet sold by the square metre but measured in feet and inches ?

There is a generation (that arrived after many on here) ... who are not old enough to remember 'old money' measurements and only know metric .. we dinosaurs, who are bilingual in measurement terms, are a dying breed. Embrace a new order As the mighty Bob Dylan said .... The times they are a'changing.

"Times may be a changing" but not apparently for the better. I don't need a weather man to know which the wind blows !

 

[Niv]

Seeing as I am out of honey atm and have both jar sizes, I think I will give 12oz a try at the same price I charged last year for 1lb and see how it goes.

Does anyone have an opinion on how popular chunk honey is? Is it worth making some up or just stick with runny and cut comb as separate products?

 

[WoodenBeam]

Seeing as I am out of honey atm and have both jar sizes, I think I will give 12oz a try at the same price I charged last year for 1lb and see how it goes.

Does anyone have an opinion on how popular chunk honey is? Is it worth making some up or just stick with runny and cut comb as separate products?

Labour of love if done well. If you’re looking to do this from a accountants point of view, profit on return, costing you your own time etc etc don’t bother.
If Honey Shows were happening I’d suggest you enter that as a place to start to get feed back on your efforts.

 

[Niv]

Thanks wooden beam, appreciate the feedback.

 

[WoodenBeam]

Done well it is something that you can look at and be proud of - a bit like hand made dipped candles............the money you’d get just doesn’t justify doing it from a mega return money spinning exercise. Put alongside your other honey products though could give a really good display and help with an overall sales pitch.

 

[WoodenBeam]

From a money spinning point of view straight from the extractor can’t be beaten - don’t bother putting through a sieve let alone filtering god forbid. Whack a lid on and sell quickly for the biggest amount you can get - just don’t say RAW even under your breath

I am saying this a bit tongue in cheek, doing the above I think answers a short term fad. Longer term if you can provide a good quality liquid and set honey you’ll have many a happy customer returning for more

 

[ericbeaumont]

I and my few hives are coming from a rather different place. I keep bees because its something I love doing...I am a very happy man indeed...thats a completely different ball game and must admit that Im not sure why some on this forum get so upset by us "hobby" beekeepers selling the odd "under priced" lb jar-surely this poor old crazy world of ours is big enough for all?

No, we're all in the same boat and it's no good pretending otherwise. I too keep bees because it's something I love doing and which gives happiness (often enough), but when it comes to the market, under-priced jars not only suppress the price or sales for others but maintain in the mind of the public the idea that honey is (and ought to be) a cheap product.

Our job is to to convert public perception over the next few years (especially in the light of dubious Chinese imports, fakery, Brexit and the environmental cost of transporting goods) that an authentic and local product is of real value. Any minor shift that we can all do in that direction will be for the good, and I suggest that to achieve such change the two-hive owner and the two hundred hive owner ought really to sing from the same sheet.

 

[mbc]

No, we're all in the same boat and it's no good pretending otherwise. I too keep bees because it's something I love doing and which gives happiness (often enough), but when it comes to the market, under-priced jars not only suppress the price or sales for others but maintain in the mind of the public the idea that honey is (and ought to be) a cheap product.

Our job is to to convert public perception over the next few years (especially in the light of dubious Chinese imports, fakery, Brexit and the environmental cost of transporting goods) that an authentic and local product is of real value. Any minor shift that we can all do in that direction will be for the good, and I suggest that to achieve such change the two-hive owner and the two hundred hive owner ought really to sing from the same sheet.

What about utility?
For me, the squat jar is easier to use, better yet the 7lb tubs, I'm selling real food not fairy dust.

 

[Murox]

No, we're all in the same boat and it's no good pretending otherwise. I too keep bees because it's something I love doing and which gives happiness (often enough), but when it comes to the market, under-priced jars not only suppress the price or sales for others but maintain in the mind of the public the idea that honey is (and ought to be) a cheap product.

Our job is to to convert public perception over the next few years (especially in the light of dubious Chinese imports, fakery, Brexit and the environmental cost of transporting goods) that an authentic and local product is of real value. Any minor shift that we can all do in that direction will be for the good, and I suggest that to achieve such change the two-hive owner and the two hundred hive owner ought really to sing from the same sheet.

Pricing is just one small part, jar shape another, size another, labelling another, wording and brand name, fonts used, colour........Altering perceptions and expectations is neither simple or quick. As an example, consider how much time, effort and soul searching went into a small change of a certain Cadbury's product; and they had (a veritable army of) professionals dedicated to the job.

Whilst rules and regulations are generally clear (there is often considerable ambiguity too), enforcement and holding to account have slipped by the wayside in the last so many years. Perhaps we have become accustomed to being hoodwinked, lied to and bombarded with all kinds of the the most indefensible rhetoric from all directions.

 

[madasafish]

I live in an area where money is tightish, elderly people are conservative (with a small "c"), and there is currently no need to do much marketing as a sign coupled with occasional FB advertising (used to build a customer base) attracts loyal repeat customers.

I sell everything I can bottle. (bottling Spring honey and starting selling before my local competitors helps. It also makes for fewer heavy supers to move in inspections so a good thing)

If I wanted to expand...it would be different but physically I would not be capable...so will not change.

If I have to adopt a similar bottle size when money becomes tighter in the next 2-3 years' recession , then I will change.

 

[Swn58]

Hi there – have recently come in some capital, and wondering if to buy some more bees, ( at the moment have a dozen or so), have a big enough workshop now. Just want some thinking, on how many hives one would need, what sort of returns/loses one could make and the best way to purchase a large number of bees ??

It may just be the hot weather that it making think like this now and beekeeping is very depended on hot weather !

I set off on the same journey back in March. At the age of 61 and unemployed/unemployable, I decided to invest in setting up a new apiary, with plans to increase the size as rapidly as possible. I invested in twenty hives and nucs. They are all polystyrene (Swienty/paradise honey) and relevant frames etc. I bought ten 6 frame nucs of bees to populate the new apiary. Unfortunately the Covid business has not helped this year, but the bees are doing well and I am about to harvest a very large honey crop!
I did a business course a few years ago, concentrating on what would be needed to have a successful bee-farming business. To become independent and just about break even, one needs no less than 75 hives. Many may dispute this, but that is the conclusion I came to! My target is to have at least forty by the end of next season. However, after the events of this year, who can tell what will happen next year?
I have nothing else better to do now, so why not be a professional beekeeper!

 

[Bored31]

Have u kept bees before. Sorry I don't know your story

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk

 

[Swn58]

I average about 50lbs honey/hive in an average year.
With 7 hives, my gross margin before labour is over 50%.

So if I wanted to pay myself £10,000 pa on that basis (£6 per lb, 50% gross margin) I would need some 66 hives. They would be on several sites so I would have additional transport costs and capital investment in extraction and bottling
and a pickup .. so that figure is optimistic...



And in bad years, 50lbs could be 25lbs...

Spot on with the calculations I think. The main problems are often going to come down to the weather though.....as you say. My second year of beekeeping saw me lose three out of four hives. It was devastating and took me most of the next season to reorganise. I like to think I am more knowledgeable and prepared now, but there is always that niggly feeling! Look at the Covid thing.....it came out of nowhere and has had an effect on everything.

 

[Swn58]

No, we're all in the same boat and it's no good pretending otherwise. I too keep bees because it's something I love doing and which gives happiness (often enough), but when it comes to the market, under-priced jars not only suppress the price or sales for others but maintain in the mind of the public the idea that honey is (and ought to be) a cheap product.

Our job is to to convert public perception over the next few years (especially in the light of dubious Chinese imports, fakery, Brexit and the environmental cost of transporting goods) that an authentic and local product is of real value. Any minor shift that we can all do in that direction will be for the good, and I suggest that to achieve such change the two-hive owner and the two hundred hive owner ought really to sing from the same sheet.

You are so right! It is more than just keeping bees and selling honey. I feel that there is a job to do in promoting local produce and the benefits. Yes, prices have to reflect the quality of the products, but it's not about money all the time. I spend a lot of time on my allotment apiary boring people about beekeeping, when they are silly enough to ask. I encourage people to take an interest and am always willing to help, if they decide to keep bees. Every Christmas I give all the allotment holders honey. There are two reasons for that. One is to show the uninitiated what pure quality really is. Secondly it's a thank you for any 'inconvenient incidences' that may have happened during the season!

 

[ericbeaumont]

Every Christmas I give all the allotment holders honey.

Hope it's a small allotment; ours has nearly a hundred and if I gave it away the bills wouldn't get paid. An autumn honey sale at a 20% discount off market prices still brings in £9.60/lb.