Bee rescue

[Tim.S]

Just thought I would run this past everyone. Long story cut short, there are some hives on family land that are no longer attended, probably for 3 years now and the keeper is not coming back. 3 are dead, one however is quite busy but the hive itself is in a shocking state and if I try to move it it will disintegrate.
I can get the lid off, but that is all. The frames and combs look as you would expect and I do not want to transfer them to a new box. I am thinking of placing a deep on top with a mixture of drawn and foundation, and a feeder on top of that, the plan being to get the queen up top laying, and when she is I can then pull the rest of the hive apart, get the bees into the new box(s) and eventually move to a new site.
I guess the bit that bothers me is do I put the drawn foundation in and risk the bees filling with the syrup or do I use just foundation? I don't have forever to get them moved as the land is due to be cleared and we don't have a flow yet here, being cold and all that!

 

[linoleum bonypart]

IMHO of a newbee ...find the queen ...shook swarm . leave as long as possible until you do it

 

[wessexmario]

I wouldn't worry whether they fill some of the new foundation with syrup or not, if the priority is to get the hive moved.

If time becomes of the essence then I'd treat it like a cutout.
Salvage what frames you can to move with the colony but abandon the old boxes and move everything into new ones prepared for transport, and move them to the new location in one operation.
You could move the colony on old or new frames, or a mix, If frames are cross braced then lift them stuck together into the new boxes. Any remaining stores could be packed in a separate box and taken with you to use to support them in the first weeks.
Once they're there then you can deliberate about sorting out the remaining old [and new] frames.

 

[pargyle]

Transfer whatever frames have any brood on them and any with stores to a new box (ideally a well insulated one). Pick the warmest day you can and do it at the warmest part of the day.

Put the new box where the old box was and get rid of the old box well away from the site (Tip any bees remaining into the new box) - I'd also remove any of the other (empty ?) hives at the same time.

The foraging bees will go back to the new box if it is sited where the old hive was and you can then leave them as long as you wish before observing the three mile rule (or the best you can get away with).

These are valuable bees - surviving as feral bees for three years (or more ?) without intervention .. don't start tinkering around with them or worrying about varroa just get them into a new box and leave them to get on with it until you are ready to move them. If they look like they are short on stores then a feed won't do any harm but only if they don't have their own honey.

Wish they were on my land - really valuable asset.

 

[pargyle]

IMHO of a newbee ...find the queen ...shook swarm . leave as long as possible until you do it

No .. not the best idea this early in the year ... far too violent an operation, would probably result in more dead bees - keep as much of the frames as possible - they can be worked out of the hive over the coming season ... see above post.

 

[Swarm]

No .. not the best idea this early in the year ... far too violent an operation, would probably result in more dead bees - keep as much of the frames as possible - they can be worked out of the hive over the coming season ... see above post.

Plus the hive and/or frames may well fall apart.

 

[pargyle]

Plus the hive and/or frames may well fall apart.

Yes .. we rescued an abandoned colony last year from the edge of a wood .. had not been tended for at least 10 years and the only reason the farmer wanted them moved was because some idiot walker went up to them and got badly stung (he said he just went to look but, when we dealt with them, they really were pussycats so I have my doubts). It was two old plywood National boxes - they both were more like a rotten tree stump than a hive and there were more holes (woodpeckers I suspect) than a swiss cheese. The 'roof' only had the metal sheet left - indeed, it may only have been a metal sheet originally. The top box was at an angle to the bottom and the bees were coming and going from every hole. It's truly amazing what bees will survive in ...

We managed to get about 6 or 7 frames out, although there was a lot of cross comb, some of the actual frames were pretty sound. The boxes, however, more or less collapsed and crumbled when we tried to move them. It was summer so we just shook the bees off the bits and put the rotten stuff and the frames that broke up into a garden bag. The bees are now part of another beekeepers apiary and still doing well.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When you say they have to be moved sharpish - how soon? if you are looking at the next month or so, then in my opinion to get them (and the queen) up into the new box a la Bailey in short order syrup or no then you have two hopes - and one's Bob

Wait until the last minute (by then, hopefully the weather will have perked up a bit) gird your loins, get in there, salvage as many frames as possible - if frames with brood on are falling to bits then tie/elastic band as much as possible into new frames as you can. Put all that in a new box, move the remains of the hive away and put the new hive there until the end of the day, seal it up then remove, put match to whatever's remaining.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I am thinking of placing a deep on top with a mixture of drawn and foundation, and a feeder on top of that, the plan being to get the queen up top laying, and when she is I can then pull the rest of the hive apart, get the bees into the new box(s) and eventually move to a new site.

If you do this now, and make sure the top box is well insulated, it shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks although you might lose some of the brood in the lower box.

Having tried to rescue frames from a crumbling box I can say it may be a non-starter, because the top bars will probably come away in your hands.

Do you think the hive could be moved if it's securely strapped together? If so then move it in the evening, so you don't lose too many flying bees, then you can take your time transferring the colony from one box to another.

 

[Poly Hive]

Not trying to top anyone but I had the privilage of opening a hive which had reputedly not been opened for 12 years and it was perfect apart from the metal spacers propolised to the upper super.

If the frames have combs running at say right angles then yes the situation is useless with regards to removing them and it iwll do far more harm than good.

Would they fit into s super? If so and you have one use a poly one for warmth and feed above. If not then a poly brood again for warmth and a frame feeder. Never mind then storing syrup, as said they might be very useful genes and so saving them is important.

If you strapped the hive in several different directions and wrapped a sheet around it would it be possible to move it gently? Just a thought.

PH

 

[Tim.S]

Thank you all for your helpful answers, food for thought as in spite of keeping bees for 6 years now I have never attempted anything like this before.
Regarding timing, we are waiting for legal paperwork to be finalised so anything from a couple of weeks to a year knowing the speed that solicitors move at! I should get a bit of warning though.