Bee hives

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

I would like to know why most bees hives are 18" x 18" has anyone tried a bigger size or smaller I know if it ani't broke why fix it. I have found a wild hive in a tree and its not a big nest ?

 

[Luminos]

I guess bigger means heavier frames, not practical for some?

 

[RoofTops]

Good grief, you know I don't think anyone has ever thought of using a bigger hive than that.

(Tongue firmly in cheek)

More seriously, I suspect the origins for the sizes of hives are lost in the mists of time. Langstroth was rumoured to have based his hive on the ready availability of champagne boxes, which may say more about the life style of 19th century US clerics than about beekeeping. Even in the UK we can't agree - the Commercial and National differ by just 0.125" in outside dimensions.

There has been research to show the bees like a space of about 40 litres when they are looking for a new home as a swarm but of course as they expand they need more room - which is why we add supers. Native British bees will look for the same size in Imperial Pints.

The sizes of hives are not massively different - even the Dadant is only a few inches wider and a bit deeper although I have seen pictures of massive hives in Eastern Europe. For most beekeepers the limit is what can be picked up by hand.

But your wild nest is probably just from a late swarm last year. I doubt it is some new race of bees which wants a small hive permanently but if you re-housed them they would probably be better off in a nuc to begin with.

 

[Nellie]

I can't find the Article in question, but I know the National Frame pre-dates the National Hive so the unhelpful answer is that a National hive is that size to accommodate 11/12 National Frames compared to the 10 in a standard WBC brood box.

What I can't remember is whether there was any solid reasoning why National Frames were agreed upon at the dimensions that they are. (14x8 and bit)

 

[oliver90owner]

OP needs to 'goggle' Dartington or (beehaus) and maybe Warre, amongst others.

 

[Hivemaker.]

There have been some quite large hives,like the Glen hive,and another i believe was called the Anderson hive,plus of course the Dartington,and top bar hives.
Small could be as small as a one frame mini mating nuc, or Apidea.

 

[itma]

If you want to go a very long way from an 18 inch square footprint, try a "Kenyan Top Bar Hive" ...

 

[Into the lions den]

I would like to know why most bees hives are 18" x 18" has anyone tried a bigger size or smaller I know if it ani't broke why fix it. I have found a wild hive in a tree and its not a big nest ?

In a strictly UK (actually England even) centric way you are correct or nearly so, but these are not used anywhere else, although some European countries have an equivalent of our National in almost identical sizing. (Actually they are more like a Smith as long lugs are pretty well unknown outside this country.) Over 75% of all hives in England are Nationals (actually I think the figure is higher than that.)

However, the vast majority of hives in use are not 18 x 18 if you look further than our generally rather introspective shores. (and, btw, to the bees its the INSIDE dimensions that matter, not the outside ones)

As for the wild colony? Well voids of the ideal size and conditions, AND discovered by the scouts doing their search for suitable sites, may have been at a premium in your area, and you have a case of 'needs must'. Not ideal, but all they could find.

 

[For want of a better word]

Rooftops ...

Native British bees will look for the same size in Imperial Pints.

My vote for QUOTE OF THE YEAR ...so far !!!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

and another i believe was called the Anderson hive,

A wartime hive which was Very useful protection for the bees during an air raid

 

[Hombre]

Actually the 18" came about because when fitted with hinged adapter plates, they fit nicely into the standard 19" electronics racks and can be swung out for servicing.

It came about because a GPO engineer had lots of free rack space. It was before the speaking clock, but was the embryonic source of that infernal buzz on the line.

You surely must remember being out in the countryside in the summer and hearing the telephone lines singing in the breeze - that was just a cover story. The buzz came down the lines from those racks of honey bees.

I always find the simple answers to be the best. Meanwhile I will have to get back to freeing up that new Langstroth hive . . . hic.

 

[Black Comb]

I was told that the national ended up that way because the largest manufacturer of the day was the leading force on the British standards committee.
Wouldn't surprise me from what I've seen of BS in operation.k

 

[user 6228]

Rooftops ...

Native British bees will look for the same size in Imperial Pints.

My vote for QUOTE OF THE YEAR ...so far !!!

Bees mead in britain look for a old firkin hole.

Which in older days was smaller than the modern continental bee hole but as times went on inflation has occured and ale firkins are now not what they once were. However the British bee still holds true to the elder firkin.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the British bee still holds true to the elder firkin.

The elder firkin what?

 

[user 6228]

The elder firkin what?

The 1454 ale firkin that whats what

 

[Poly Hive]

The sooner the bees start for real the better.

There is then a very vague chance some sense may appear.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Actually the 18" came about because when fitted with hinged adapter plates, they fit nicely into the standard 19" electronics racks and can be swung out for servicing.

Not only used by the old GPO telephone engineering department but also as main transmitter racks for the BBC, held together by 1BA bolts !

The annoying 50 cycle hum that was a major source of interference on 405 line TV transmissions was caused by feedback from bees kept in a similar fashion at an apiary by the Crystal Palace transmitter team...of course this hum was blamed on AMM radio enthusiasts, but this was a much misinformed explanation as in fact it was AMM bees!

 

[For want of a better word]

The sooner the bees start for real the better.

There is then a very vague chance some sense may appear.

PH

​

 

[Robbie & Jans Bees]

Does big work?

Has any one tried to build a hive double the size say 36" x 18" with say 22 broad frames instead of 11 and re-size the super the same I supose you could then put two queen excluders side by side If I have time I think I might have a go this year and see how it goes will up-date later in year.

 

[drstitson]

DARing
TINGling
TONgues

seriously it sounds like you are describing a hive that is ELONGATED and probably more PROFOUND than normal?

you could maybe use 4 half supers instead of two? and whilst reinventing the wheel make the hive in plastic and give it a vaguely german sounding name and it's own slot in the forum topics!