Bait hives

[Tonyatcwfarm]

Plan on using some 6 frame poly nucs as bait hives this year.
Will be adding a super to increase the size.
Should the old comb frame be placed on the brood level or on the super level
Thanks

 

[Erichalfbee]

Plan on using some 6 frame poly nucs as bait hives this year.
Will be adding a super to increase the size.
Should the old comb frame be placed on the brood level or on the super level
Thanks

At the top of the box.
I use 6 frame Paynes 14x12s with one old brood comb furthest away from the entrance and a few waxed top bars. Scouts not only check the perimeter of the box but fly across to measure the size, so my reasoning is that I have one old brooded frame as an attractant but one that doesn't significantly compromise the size of the box

 

[Swarm]

Cover the OMF as well, if it has one.

 

[peteinwilts]

I 'caught' 3 swarms last year on paynes polyboxes. All camped outside underneath the box.
After the first one, I covered the mesh. The polyboxes were different so did not smell of the first attempt.

never had the same problem with wooden bait hives.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Cover the OMF as well, if it has one.

Yes...indeed

 

[Millet]

The swarm mine attracted last year had two frames with new wax foundation, it was a single six frame Nuc that i made myself out of 19mm ply, i also placed bits of old bees wax in there from my original hive that i had collected during inspections.

 

[Karsal]

Plan on using some 6 frame poly nucs as bait hives this year.
Will be adding a super to increase the size.
Should the old comb frame be placed on the brood level or on the super level
Thanks

I caught two swarms in two days using poly nucleus hives. I cut the side feeder out and make into an eight frame. You have to cover the OMF. The bees ignored the same bait hive with the OMF and went for the covered one in both cases.

 

[Eyeman]

The swarm mine attracted last year had two frames with new wax foundation, it was a single six frame Nuc that i made myself out of 19mm ply,

Without beekeepers to look after them do you think a swarm would be able to expand and store enough honey to survive the winter in a 6 frame national nuc?
My experience is they would struggle. Are they going into a 6 frame nuc because there isn't anything else suitable available or are they Italians and think there still in Italy?

 

[masterBK]

Over the years I must have had many dozens of swarms go into bait and empty hives. All of those that went into 5 comb nucleus boxes were secondary swarms (casts) headed up by a virgin queen( sometimes with several virgin queens judging from the dead ones thrown out over the next day or so)

 

[Eyeman]

All of those that went into 5 comb nucleus boxes were secondary swarms (casts)

My understanding was that a swarm's choice of cavity size is influenced by evolutionary factors such as winter survival. Any hard data on small swarms choose smaller cavities than big swarms?

 

[masterBK]

No, just personal observation over 50 years. I have even found a cast in a bird box (normally associated with Bumbles). Ideal cavities in trees are a bit in short supply in many areas these days so they have to go somewhere and pick the best they can find in the circumstances. Most of the work done by Seeley and others was with A m ligustica a more proliic bee than the local black mongrels in my part of the world which seem able to be contained in a smaller hive. At the other end of the scale I have been called out to lots of occupied wheelie and compost bins brimming over with bees (people often discover them when they come back off a couple of weeks holiday).

 

[Finman]

My understanding was that a swarm's choice of cavity size is influenced by evolutionary factors such as winter survival. Any hard data on small swarms choose smaller cavities than big swarms?

You will loose best swarms with small baits.

.

 

[Millet]

Without beekeepers to look after them do you think a swarm would be able to expand and store enough honey to survive the winter in a 6 frame national nuc?
My experience is they would struggle. Are they going into a 6 frame nuc because there isn't anything else suitable available or are they Italians and think there still in Italy?

I have mentioned this on another thread somewhere that i had a National brood body set up the exact same way no more than 10ft away from the Six frame Nuc, it was a prime swarm i presume also as it was headed by my origional Blue marked Queen.

 

[peteinwilts]

My understanding was that a swarm's choice of cavity size is influenced by evolutionary factors such as winter survival. Any hard data on small swarms choose smaller cavities than big swarms?

according to the research performed by Florida university, 40 litres is optimal.

 

[B+.]

according to the research performed by Florida university, 40 litres is optimal.

Bees have a strange habit of taking up residence almost anywhere though...as though opportunity was more important than finding the best possible cavity.
This is a photo from summer 2016. It shows a colony which had made its nest in the cavity of a wooden building that was being demolished

 

[Eyeman]

according to the research performed by Florida university, 40 litres is optimal.

The only research Ive seen involved prime swarms.
As has already been said our 'British Hybrid' may prefer smaller size cavities.
Do castes prefer less than 40L?

 

[Karsal]

The first swarm to arrive in my paynes poly nuc was a large prime swarm that almost filled it. The second was a cast that was only covering two frames. Both did well in the nucs.
If the scouts are happy with the size of the cavity available the rest will follow.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Like others have said, you wont need the super, just put clean used comb, preferable at least 2 full clean combs, in the middle of the 5 frames. add lemon grass oil, position correctly, reduce the entrance a little, as already said, close off the mesh floor. I do find the 40 litre guide to be fairly acurate.
I caught 23 swarms last year, all in well used nucs. never fails.

 

[Finman]

The only research Ive seen involved prime swarms.
As has already been said our 'British Hybrid' may prefer smaller size cavities.
Do castes prefer less than 40L?

In that university research they offered 3 alternatives, which size catches best swarms, and it was 40 l.

The size measuring is in genes. Bees propably seek the hive for their future, not for their recent colony size.

On practice you have seen, that a colony cannot stay long time in a tiny nuc like home. When brood emerge 2 cycles, they must swarm again

But everybody may put what ever bait hive sizes.

 

[Finman]

The first swarm to arrive in my paynes poly nuc was a large prime swarm that almost filled it. The second was a cast that was only covering two frames. Both did well in the nucs.
If the scouts are happy with the size of the cavity available the rest will follow.

My cast swarm are often 5 kg. Such fills 2 langstroth boxes.


Reason is that prime swarm cannot leave because queen wing is cut.
They must wait a new queen, which can fly. That queen ought to be a leader of cast swarm, but now it has prime bees too.