Badly behaved bees...

[JonnyPicklechin]

I've gone into the war zone and moved a truly vicious double brooder...Left a brood box with 2 frames BIAS and one stores for the nasties to come home to...

Hive is 20 feet away and probably about to swarm with a VQ after the clipped queen probably having not returned. Ive not had the chance to sort it until today and not been able to inspect given the attacks I got.

I will inspect tomorrow now its calm but first I am going to block the flyer box up tonight and was going to take it out of the apiary and check the serenity in the apiary after they have gone tomorrow. My plan was to find a site 3 miles away and leave them for a week and as I write I am committed to that (I'd be glad to see the back of them for a while, the buggers)...

Alternatively:

1) I'd rather not take them away as that's hassle. Should should I put in the shade for a while with air and leave them sealed for a couple days 300 or 400 yards away ( I just don't want any negative jiu-jiu in the apiary) . Would that be enough to erase their memories? Maybe put some grass over the entrance when they emerge? Then keep them there for a future reunite when the core hive is re-queened?
2) Should I put a spare caged queen in there with them in the hope they enjoy her and calm down?
3) Or, move them the 400 yards leave them for the day then open them up late in the day. As the original hive location will now be unoccupied, disorientated returning flyers will just drift into neighbouring hives. Any remainers can be housed until the re-unite as per 1.

Decent plan? Any other suggestions?

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Can anyone give some advice? Cheers

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[drex]

Had difficulty understanding the set up from your post. Sounds like you have moved an aggressive colony and left a box in its original place to collect the flyers. You then intend to inspect the brood without the foragers being there to bother you. You are expecting them to have raised a new queen.
That new queen will have some old queen genetics, and could well raise aggressive off Spring, and you will have gained nothing.
Better to do away with any nasty queen and introduce new genetics.
The idea of moving an aggressive colony is to allow you to get in there to do that without being murdered.
I am assuming they have always been feisty and it is not just due to temporary factors ( climate, forage, queen status etc)
Might be an idea to give us a clearer picture once you have been in there to assess what is going on with regard to swarming and queen status

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Will clarify:

Query is about the flyer box left on the old site....(I am ok with sorting original hive that has been moved)

They are so vicious, should i move them 3 miles? How to calm them? Add an old queen? No need to move them far away...just move them a couple of hundred yards but keep them locked in so they lose locational sense?

Basically Id like to keep the separated flyers and merge them back at some point but how to manage them whilst keeping the apairy calm?

Hope this is more straightforward?

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[JonnyPicklechin]

Searched a much easier main hive. Approx 15 or so sealed queen cells but eggs everywhere so searched and found the clipped queen. Thanks goodness for clipping!

Dispatched her with great relief and took down all cells. Can I put a caged mated queen in tomorrow? Figured I give them a day queenless and then put in her in designed for captivity for 4 or 5 days, obviously checking the colony's first reaction to her on initial introduction.

Still would love a view on what do do with the jailed flyers (as above). The apiary was at last lovely place to be - just a sealed box of growling nasties in the corner of the meadow.

 

[pargyle]

Searched a much easier main hive. Approx 15 or so sealed queen cells but eggs everywhere so searched and found the clipped queen. Thanks goodness for clipping!

Dispatched her with great relief and took down all cells. Can I put a caged mated queen in tomorrow? Figured I give them a day queenless and then put in her in designed for captivity for 4 or 5 days, obviously checking the colony's first reaction to her on initial introduction.

Still would love a view on what do do with the jailed flyers (as above). The apiary was at last lovely place to be - just a sealed box of growling nasties in the corner of the meadow.

They will be dead by this evening in this heat if you leave them sealed up .. If you are going to keep them you need to open them up. Move them somewhere that they are not going to attack you .. you need to consider the 3 feet or 3 miles rule though .. just leaving them sealed up does not always make them re-oientate. Bees seem to have some rudimentary instinct about where they come from ..

Have you got a new mated queen ? If so, once she is installed and you are sure that the colony is calm and manageable you can do a newspaper combine with the old flyers.

Personally .. I'd just shake them out, remove the box they are in and let them take their chances .. they will beg their way into other hives if you have them in the vicinity.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Dispatched her with great relief and took down all cells. Can I put a caged mated queen in tomorrow?

Too late - better to put the caged queen in the moment the old one becomes one with the gatepost, just be patient in taking the protection off the candy.
As for the flying bees - as phil says, cooped up they won't be long dying. You could put the original hive back and grin and bear it for a while, but that will make it harder for them to accept the new queen. Shake them out or, take them far away for a week or two, bring them back and........
shake them out

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Too late - better to put the caged queen in the moment the old one becomes one with the gatepost, just be patient in taking the protection off the candy.
As for the flying bees - as phil says, cooped up they won't be long dying. You could put the original hive back and grin and bear it for a while, but that will make it harder for them to accept the new queen. Shake them out or, take them far away for a week or two, bring them back and........
shake them out

Great, thanks...and Pargyle.

Its been 4 hours since I dispatched her. I think i'll take my chances are put her in this afternoon.

I'll take the flyers away tonight...

 

[enrico]

I combined my bad hive with a good hive having despatched the queen. They are getting better every day but it is taking time. After JBM's post I am now beginning to wonder if it is the location.
I had another hive that was bad for the last two inspections but today they were unbelievably quiet. Just in the nick of time or that queen would have gone too! I never understand how they change so quickly!
Good luck Jonny hope it works out
E

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

Cheers Eric, same to you sir with your ...its an unpleasant experience. You remember I had a nasty last year...that was in the garden but not as vicious, but neighbours. This new horror was at the out apiary...10 times worse but no neighbours.. Message from anyone reading this...an out apiary is much less stressful as no risk to other folks....a super nasty colony in an out-apiary, away from the public is the beek's problem and his/her alone....

..The relief you get when things chill out with a horror-hive is palpable...

 

[drex]

Whatever you decide to do with the vicious colony you are still going to have to disturb it in some way. When I had a really nasty hive, which I decided to requeen, I just wore two layers under my suit, leather gloves and made sure all was bee proof. Went in at peak foraging time, used water spray rather than smoke ( it made them worse), just gritted my teeth and got on with it. Knowing you are sting proof is a great help, even worth all the sweat. It worked out well and they calmed down with new queen