August options defensive hive.

[beeker]

I have one hive that has been a bit of a roller coaster hive all summer.
Was a really early swarm collection, and has swung between pingy, and downright defensive, whilst others adjacent the same day have been ok.
Every time I say.... 'last chance' they are nice, and get a stay of execution. Now, obviously they've grown over the summer, and just become unpleasurable to inspect. I should have done it ages ago, but hindsight is such a wonderful thing.

Options I think I have are
a)Find and kill the queen, then requeen using eggs from a nice colony, making sure only the nice frame is allowed to produce cells.
b)Requeen with bought in mated Queen
c) Unite with nicer colony
d) suck it up buttercup, and overwinter them, with as little contact as needed, and rethink in spring
I do have a couple of nice nucs at that apiary, though none are more than 3 full frames at the minute, and don't want to deplete them too much, though not seen a massive number of wasps yet. And a couple of full colonies there and at another apiary. Plus a couple of better populated nucs at the other apiary. If combining is it best in same apiary, or move them to another, or vice versa

Sat here musing with a very fat neck courtesy of them, not sure how they reached just below my ear, but it did hurt

Any suggestions as to best approach please.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

forget option a).
Either
Get a bought in queen, introduce to a nuc and when established, kill the queen in the problem colony and unite
Or, as you have some 'nice nucs' at that apiary
Kill the queen and unite with one of the well behaved nucs

 

[beeker]

forget option a).
Either
Get a bought in queen, introduce to a nuc and when established, kill the queen in the problem colony and unite
Or, as you have some 'nice nucs' at that apiary
Kill the queen and unite with one of the well behaved nucs

Emyr.Just for my knowledge bank. Forget option a) ? Getting to late in the year to offer reasonable chance of success given the timings or some other reason. Thank you for your help in any case.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just for my knowledge bank. Forget option a) ? Getting to late in the year to offer reasonable chance of success given the timings or some other reason.

the window is narrowing for a successful mating and subsequent winter buildup.
You are also leaving a vile colony queenless for an extended period, so good chance they will be in a filthy mood.
I would give the same advice earlier in the season. If they are over defensuve/agressive, whatever you want to call,it, you want to fix it as soon as possible.

 

[Swarm]

As you've endured them until now, I would over winter them and deal with the problem next spring by uniting with one of those nice nus, which will be more established by then.

 

[Buzzo]

similar issue here , i am leaving until spring when numbers reduce, then will replace the queen. also easier to find her then.

 

[ericbeaumont]

c) Unite with nicer colony

Least work, quickest improvement.

 

[Erichalfbee]

c) Unite with nicer colony

I'd get it over and done with. Overwinter a nice colony.
I've had hot bees in the past just like this and yo yo'd all summer with them. Decided I could live with it and sort them in the spring and lo and behold, diminished in size, they were OK the next year but by summer I was back to the yo yo.

 

[Sutty]

Unite would be my vote, stops production of dodgy drones & leaves a big colony to prepare for winter.

 

[sean-a]

Deal with problem colonies early
Starting out 80% of my honey came from 20% of the hives.
Cull the underperformers and the "bastards", you won't lose much and life will be oh so much easier!

 

[beeker]

Update. Realise i have to find the queen somehow, so been looking at all the methods.
Today i moved the hive 100m and put a floor, brood box, a couple of frames and some brood in there, aiming to bleed off as many flyerrs as i can. Plus put the part filled supers on there too.

Went prepared or so I thought, had left my wellies at work, so put sturdiest boots i had on. They were not impressed with the move at all. Somehow got in both boots and burrowed down. I'm now sporting a pair of very fetching pig trotters .and one fat knee to match. Plus the couple on my neck that were just starting to subside, have swollen up again.
Been and collected wellies and gaffer tape, a few Jsck Daniels tonight and unite hopefully tomorrow. .

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

ten feet would have been more than far enough to move them

 

[Penninetrader]

I have one hive that has been a bit of a roller coaster hive all summer.
Was a really early swarm collection, and has swung between pingy, and downright defensive, whilst others adjacent the same day have been ok.
Every time I say.... 'last chance' they are nice, and get a stay of execution. Now, obviously they've grown over the summer, and just become unpleasurable to inspect. I should have done it ages ago, but hindsight is such a wonderful thing.

Options I think I have are
a)Find and kill the queen, then requeen using eggs from a nice colony, making sure only the nice frame is allowed to produce cells.
b)Requeen with bought in mated Queen
c) Unite with nicer colony
d) suck it up buttercup, and overwinter them, with as little contact as needed, and rethink in spring
I do have a couple of nice nucs at that apiary, though none are more than 3 full frames at the minute, and don't want to deplete them too much, though not seen a massive number of wasps yet. And a couple of full colonies there and at another apiary. Plus a couple of better populated nucs at the other apiary. If combining is it best in same apiary, or move them to another, or vice versa

Sat here musing with a very fat neck courtesy of them, not sure how they reached just below my ear, but it did hurt

Any suggestions as to best approach please.

That would be me on steroids, I swell dangerously , I can deal with pain no problem so hands etc, is par for the course. My girls are good girls but there will always be a crank one and that one would have to live elsewhere away from the rest

 

[Michael Palmer]

b. Requeen with a bought queen.

 

[Aneebe]

I have one hive that has been a bit of a roller coaster hive all summer.
Was a really early swarm collection, and has swung between pingy, and downright defensive, whilst others adjacent the same day have been ok.
Every time I say.... 'last chance' they are nice, and get a stay of execution. Now, obviously they've grown over the summer, and just become unpleasurable to inspect. I should have done it ages ago, but hindsight is such a wonderful thing.

Options I think I have are
a)Find and kill the queen, then requeen using eggs from a nice colony, making sure only the nice frame is allowed to produce cells.
b)Requeen with bought in mated Queen
c) Unite with nicer colony
d) suck it up buttercup, and overwinter them, with as little contact as needed, and rethink in spring
I do have a couple of nice nucs at that apiary, though none are more than 3 full frames at the minute, and don't want to deplete them too much, though not seen a massive number of wasps yet. And a couple of full colonies there and at another apiary. Plus a couple of better populated nucs at the other apiary. If combining is it best in same apiary, or move them to another, or vice versa

Sat here musing with a very fat neck courtesy of them, not sure how they reached just below my ear, but it did hurt

Any suggestions as to best approach please.

I'm in the same boat. Had a surreal experience of a nutter double brood box yesterday. Thankfully they're in an out of the way spot.. The queen's paint is off I suspect so as finding her would be another "experience", I'm hoping to leave it, start shutting them down and if they're still with us come spring, I'll do a squish and unite with a nice nuc. Unless you really had to, I would avoid trying to get a queen mated now.

 

[beeker]

Unite is the plan, odds of getting a successful mating are fading by the day, but not impossible. So united it'll be, safest option I think.
Going to try late morning, the bled off flyers, hopefully, will help me find Queen first go. Ever the optimist
If not I'll try the pairing of frames, book style. And then sieve through Queen Excluder as a last ditch.

If that doesn't work I'm stumped, and will probably had enough by then in any case.

 

[Ely]

I have one hive that has been a bit of a roller coaster hive all summer.
Was a really early swarm collection, and has swung between pingy, and downright defensive, whilst others adjacent the same day have been ok.
Every time I say.... 'last chance' they are nice, and get a stay of execution. Now, obviously they've grown over the summer, and just become unpleasurable to inspect. I should have done it ages ago, but hindsight is such a wonderful thing.

Options I think I have are
a)Find and kill the queen, then requeen using eggs from a nice colony, making sure only the nice frame is allowed to produce cells.
b)Requeen with bought in mated Queen
c) Unite with nicer colony
d) suck it up buttercup, and overwinter them, with as little contact as needed, and rethink in spring
I do have a couple of nice nucs at that apiary, though none are more than 3 full frames at the minute, and don't want to deplete them too much, though not seen a massive number of wasps yet. And a couple of full colonies there and at another apiary. Plus a couple of better populated nucs at the other apiary. If combining is it best in same apiary, or move them to another, or vice versa

Sat here musing with a very fat neck courtesy of them, not sure how they reached just below my ear, but it did hurt

Any suggestions as to best approach please.

Make them hopelessly queenless and buy a queen. It is actually a good time of year to do it. They seem to accept them more readily when they know they are running out of time to raise their own.

 

[Ely]

Update. Realise i have to find the queen somehow, so been looking at all the methods.
Today i moved the hive 100m and put a floor, brood box, a couple of frames and some brood in there, aiming to bleed off as many flyerrs as i can. Plus put the part filled supers on there too.

Went prepared or so I thought, had left my wellies at work, so put sturdiest boots i had on. They were not impressed with the move at all. Somehow got in both boots and burrowed down. I'm now sporting a pair of very fetching pig trotters .and one fat knee to match. Plus the couple on my neck that were just starting to subside, have swollen up again.
Been and collected wellies and gaffer tape, a few Jsck Daniels tonight and unite hopefully tomorrow. .

You want to disturb the queen as little as possible so that she doesn't break out of her normal routine and position in the hive. Try to not use too much smoke (protect yourself well). Ignore honey frames and capped frames with no eggs or larvae. The queen wants to be on a frame with space to lay. Work quickly and smoothly until you hit a frame with eggs and then slow down and pay close attention from that point. She will more than likely be on a frame with fresh eggs. If you take too long and study every frame, the more likely you will not find her as she will be disturbed and quit her normal behaviour and run off.

 

[holmbee]

I'm in the same boat. Had a surreal experience of a nutter double brood box yesterday. Thankfully they're in an out of the way spot.. The queen's paint is off I suspect so as finding her would be another "experience", I'm hoping to leave it, start shutting them down and if they're still with us come spring, I'll do a squish and unite with a nice nuc. Unless you really had to, I would avoid trying to get a queen mated now.

I would try to requeen now as easy to buy queens at present. Would have to wait until April/May in the new year. Overwinter nucs can be expensive. Also use a good marker in future. I use TOMA and find them far better than POSCA.

 

[beeker]

The deed is done. Thanks for all the support and help. Far better behaved without the flying bees, though some still remained.
Checked all the others first, to remind myself that I could still do this without pissing every colony off, and that it was just those bees, and not entirely me.
Went through three times and still couldn't find her, so sieved through a QE with some brood underneath. Still took a while, but finally found a small Queen tucked right under the edge of the bottom in the space, and quickly dealt with.
Combined with a healthy biggish colony with newspaper. I put the Q+ on top, not sure which way was right, but seem to remember someone here saying do it that way round. Any way all done, no more stings, but very sweaty as wrapped up too well.
Will see what the future brings with these, after all this brood has died off.