Artificial swarm

[bustergrimes]

I made an artificial swarm the other day and have a feeling that things aren't quite right...There doesn't seem to be enough 'flying bees' in the original hive and the bees that are in the old box in the new position seem reluctant to leave the hive at all.

It's now a week since the split and all seems fine with the old queen in the new box, original site, but the other box is worrying me.

A neighbour told me that they saw the bees in the old box (new position) leave in what sounded like a swarm only to return shortly after. The QC is still in tact so there's no virgin queen to swarm with so that makes sense but my gut is telling me that even when she does emerge they are still going to swarm.

Am I being paranoid or is there something up here? I'm sure one of you will tell me what I've done wrong.

Cheers.

 

[Finman]

.
In my AS hives about 30% made after swarm in brood hives, if I do not take care of it.

 

[Cazza]

Have you checked there are no other QC's present?

Have you moved the old hive AGAIN to the other side of the original queen and changed the entrance orientation to bleed off any new flying bees into the original hive?

Cazza

 

[oliver90owner]

Queen should not have emerged if it was only a week since the A/S. Or was the split something else?

Have you checked for queen cells in the box in the original position?

If they are going to swarm, would there not need to be another queen cell in that box?

Tell us more. Not convinced whether it was a swarm, or supercedure, even. And I hate guessing as guesses are usually way off beam.

 

[bustergrimes]

No. The split was a split and it's only been a week so no new queen is an accepted fact.

The box with the old queen in the original position is fine. No QC at all, foundation being drawn and eggs already being laid. All good there. Not a concern.

I can't move the old box to the other side of the original position as it's on a terrace and there's no space to do that. I appreciate this won't allow extra new flying bees to 'bleed' into the old site but that's cool. To me though, there still seems to be an inordinate amount of these bees that don't seem to want to leave the hive in the new position. Very few are flying and whenever I've been there there's little to no activity and the news of a swarm leaving and returning is the thing I'm intrigued about.

If bees leaving without a queen then returning to the hive is normal and If losing 30% of AS swarms is normal then that's also cool.

I've not been in this game long enough to know what to look for and what's normal.

 

[bustergrimes]

ps - No other QC's present

 

[Finman]

ps - No other QC's present

Loosing 30% is not loosing, if you stop them.
70% break their of queen cells when brood hive is too weak. These are Italians.
Carniolans have different figures.

 

[REDWOOD]

How many QCs did you find and where were they on the frame in the hive before you performed an AS

 

[bustergrimes]

Found about 5 and I think all were around the bottom of the frames

 

[bustergrimes]

http://postimg.org/image/ptsdrapfj/

 

[beeno]

Hi bustergrimes,
Questions: How reliable is witness to be able to tell difference between orientation flight and swarm attempt? Were the workers interested in the QC when you inspected? Was the QC capped when you did the split? If so, 9 days + 7 days = 16 days. Sometimes, they build QCs in the comb which are near enough impossible to spot! Put your ear to the hive tomorrow if you hear piping and quacking you have two queens in the hive (one out one in cell). Tomorrow 19C forecast! If there is plenty of food in the hive they have no reason for nurse bees to become foragers at the moment. Perhaps it's only a question of being patient. They lead us a song and dance these bees. Wish you all the best.

 

[bustergrimes]

Hi Beeno,

You seem very friendly and helpful. Thanks for replying...

The QC's weren't capped when I did the split and the bees were moderately interested in the ones that were removed (and the one that was left). Why is it you ask?

The witness was a 10 year old kid! However the way he described the bees made it sound very much like an attempted swarm. I've heard of bees swarming and then returning to the hive before so I can imagine that it did happen but I still don't know why they'd do it. Do you?

Anyway, hopefully you're right and I'm just being paranoid/impatient. You comment about the nurse bees not needing to become foragers explains the lack of interest in them leaving the hive so I'll sit tight and hope for the best. I'd just be a bit gutted if after the time and effort trying to prevent them swarming they just did it anyway!