Artificial swarm query

[nonstandard]

I performed an A/S on one of my colonies last Thursday, I found 1 newly sealed cell and 1 with a larvae sitting on a bed of royal jelly. I took out the queen on a frame with brood and stores and put her in a new hive on the old site I added a spare frame of stores and foundation.

My question is this, advice seems to be to move the old Q- (at the moment) colony from one side of the new Q+ colony to the other after a week in order to reduce further the flying bees and reduce the possibility of cast swarms. Am I correct in thinking that instead of moving the hive to the other side of the Q+ colony one could move it anywhere within the apiary as long as it is sufficiently distanced from it's original location?

 

[onriver]

I would say so - especially relevant where you have hives adjacent to each other - you can't then assume when you do that second move the flying bees will return to the first (original queen and flying bees) hive. The object, as I understand it, is to starve the hive of flying bees, ideally to benefit your original queen but, if not at least another of your hives. Happy to be corrected!

 

[Finman]

.
When you move a hive, youd should think that you must join the hives again for main yield.

Via swarming procedure the two hives are out of balance 1-2 months. It is a half of yield season.
The yield will be very small if you do not join them after 2 weeks.

So you cannot move hive from where ever.

 

[Finman]

.
Important is that make a false swarm on foundations. When bees draw combs, it stops their swarming fever.

 

[rae]

Ideally you should leave it close to the originating hive.

When you move the Q- hive to the other side of the Q+ hive, the flying bees will return and arrive at a big empty space where their home used to be. They will then end up at the nearest hive - which will be their old home. Presumably it is easier to get in with your old mates, rather than some random hive. I've never seen fighting when doing this AS move....but you certainly get fighting if bees arrive at some random hive.

It isn't the end of the world though - bees will negotiate their way into a strange hive if they are homeless.

 

[SimonB]

the flying bees will return and arrive at a big empty space where their home used to be.

Wouldn't this happen though anyway regardless of where the Q- hive was located, as long as it was within the 3 feet/3 mile rule as they wouldn't re-orientate themselves, or would they, I think that is the question being asked here?

I am very interested in this question since I will only have space to move a Q- hive to one side of the Q+ hive.

Thanks
Simon

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Wouldn't this happen though anyway regardless of where the Q- hive was located, as long as it was within the 3 feet/3 mile rule as they wouldn't re-orientate themselves, or would they, I think that is the question being asked here?

I am very interested in this question since I will only have space to move a Q- hive to one side of the Q+ hive.

Thanks
Simon

Hi Simon - look into doing a demaree instead of a standard AS, basically turn your hive into a high rise.

 

[rae]

Wouldn't this happen though anyway regardless of where the Q- hive was located, as long as it was within the 3 feet/3 mile rule as they wouldn't re-orientate themselves, or would they, I think that is the question being asked here?

The point is that they will attempt to get into the nearest hive to their old home - which should be the Q+ hive, which really was their home. So if you put the Q- hive somewhere random, the bees will try and get into some random hive. This may lead to fights, or the addition of flying bees to a hive where they are not wanted.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Couldn't you just do a straight swap of hive positions irrespective of where either hive is?
So, if you have positioned the parent colony 10ft away you just swap the 2 hives around?

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Couldn't you just do a straight swap of hive positions irrespective of where either hive is?
So, if you have positioned the parent colony 10ft away you just swap the 2 hives around?

but then you'd get the flying bees (the majority) of the q+ hive ending up in the q- hive!

 

[nonstandard]

Just to clarify,

The Q+ hive is on the old site and the Q- hive is 4ft to the right of it, (this is the statu quo); normal procedure is to move Q- hive to the left of the Q+ hive after a week to reduce the number of flying bees in the Q- hive to reduce the risk of cast swarms.

I cannot make the second move with the Q- hive because there is another hive 3ft to the left of the Q+ hive and ideally I'd like to move the Q- hive 20ft away to the other side of my apiary; I personally can't see any reason why not but will gladly bow to greater experience.

Unless the new queen fails to mate I do not intend to reunite the colonies, ideally I'd like to go for increase.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi Simon - look into doing a demaree instead of a standard AS, basically turn your hive into a high rise.

if you biuld a split board with closable entrances you can place it instread of the crown board on top of the q+ hive then your brood Q- on it, lets the top hive out first to the left, then 7 days to the right, then to front front when you want to combine

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/natsplit.html

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/snelgroveboard.html

you can also use a floor above a crown board or on roof but you need to physically turn the floor through 180 degrees after 7 days

my GF only used split boards, two super from the stack (as brood) as thats all you need, the rest roof and floor are from the old hive

his little morris van could not hold many brood boxes, floors and roofs but split boards took a hardly any space but a full AS is easier and has less drifting bees so works better

 

[SimonB]

if you biuld a split board with closable entrances you can place it instread of the crown board on top of the q+ hive then your brood Q- on it, lets the top hive out first to the left, then 7 days to the right, then to front front when you want to combine

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/natsplit.html

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/snelgroveboard.html

you can also use a floor above a crown board or on roof but you need to physically turn the floor through 180 degrees after 7 days

my GF only used split boards, two super from the stack (as brood) as thats all you need, the rest roof and floor are from the old hive

his little morris van could not hold many brood boxes, floors and roofs but split boards took a hardly any space but a full AS is easier and has less drifting bees so works better

Thanks for both the replies - MM I need some time to digest your idea, I didn't immediately follow all the steps.

I can't do a perfect right left move, but can relocate Q- to the front and left a little, am sure this will be good enough.

Might be doing an AS tomorrow depending on what I find on inspection, so I'll see how I get on. Between two inspections on Sunday and Wednesday I fear I have made a mistake in my swarm control.