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Tindog

New Bee
Joined
May 17, 2016
Messages
53
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Location
Nottingham
Hive Type
National
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6
Can you please help to sort out a differing of opinion.
My beekeeping buddy, who has more experience than me, is of the opinion that as the weather is warming up to double figures, he should start to feed his hives with 2x1 syrup. I have said that I think it is still a little too early and would rather keep to the fondant.
Your thoughts please?
 
I would have posted this in the beginners section TBH but me personally think it's to early for build up syrup but same old thing ask a beekeeper a question expect many different answers.

Also I suppose it depends what your plan is for your bees this year?
 
It depends on the condition of the bees. If they have plenty of stores, feeding is not needed. That said, stimulative feeding at this time of year can significantly increase brood rearing. As an example, I am feeding 4 colonies specifically to raise a round of queens. Those colonies have 4 frames of brood as compared with the rest which have 2 or 3.

Here are the conditions I apply to determine whether or not to use stimulative feeding.

1. Do I have a good reason for wanting early buildup? Raising queens and/or making early splits is a valid reason.

2. Is abundant pollen coming in? If not, stimulative feeding may be counterproductive or pollen sub may be needed.

3. Is the colony healthy with a good queen? Stimulative feeding is wasted on weak colonies with poor queens.

4. Can I manage early swarming? Stimulative feeding will trigger early buildup and that leads to early swarming.
 
Can you please help to sort out a differing of opinion.
My beekeeping buddy, who has more experience than me, is of the opinion that as the weather is warming up to double figures, he should start to feed his hives with 2x1 syrup. I have said that I think it is still a little too early and would rather keep to the fondant.
Your thoughts please?

It depends why he feed. 2:1 syrup is ok if bees take it.
 
The long range forecast is threatening another cold snap in about 2 weeks..
I wouldn't be forcing brood rearing right now. As it is I reckon some will be caught out by starvation early to mid march IF they've got the forecast right.
 
The long range forecast is threatening another cold snap in about 2 weeks..
I wouldn't be forcing brood rearing right now. As it is I reckon some will be caught out by starvation early to mid march IF they've got the forecast right.

Last year all over again!
 
It's not so much the when here that bothers as the strength.

Spring if I feed it's one to one and autumn when I fed syrup (not done so for years) it was two to one.

Here in the north March is early enough.


PH
 
As polyhive. 1:1 for spring feeding. Think brooding - the bees need water, carbohydrate and protein.

Encouraging them to brood now is a possibility, but remember that a large expanding colony will need to be kept fed right up until they can forage sufficient for themselves. A late spring can mean a lot of feed needed. In the UK there is usually plenty of pollen for 'naturally aspirated' colonies, but 'turbocharged' with extra water will soon use stores unless extra is supplied. I used to supply an in-hive water supply, rather than sugar solution. I reckon it worked just as well, 'cos they had plenty of stores to go at (14 x 12 frames).

A late cold snap, where the bees cannot fly for water for several days can severely stunt the brooding - larvae have a high water content and double in size very quickly.

I've not encouraged early brooding for years. One needs three week old bees for foragers. When OSR blooming was more predictable, it was easier to guess/calculate when spring build up was needed to get underway.

But back to the OP - 1:1, neither fondant nor 2:1 in spring for early build up, so both are wrong. Fondant is only required as an emergency feed, when short of stores. For brooding, the bees would need to forage for even more water! If fondant is fed the bees will take it in preference to honey (higher calorific content) for winter survival - likely leaving insufficient space for early brooding. Need to be starting build up now for early OSR, I would say. Only strong winter colonies will build up quickly of course.

My preferred route was that of swapping in brood (and sometimes bees) to the production stocks, to
boost them (the hives that were to be moved to the OSR). Stopped early swarming of the other colonies, too. Anyone who wants to accelerate spring build up needs to be a thinking beekeeper; non-thinkers are best leaving their bees to build up later. Less potential crop, but safer.
 
Temperatures here are quite stable @ 9-10c for the next two weeks and bees are out doing orientation and cleansing flights although they are not collecting much pollen so they won't be brooding much at the moment so I'll be holding off syrup feeding until pollen is available, however if you are feeding pollen patties to encourage brood rearing for an early crop then they will need water too.
 
My preferred route was that of swapping in brood (and sometimes bees) to the production stocks, to
boost them (the hives that were to be moved to the OSR). Stopped early swarming of the other colonies, too. Anyone who wants to accelerate spring build up needs to be a thinking beekeeper; non-thinkers are best leaving their bees to build up later. Less potential crop, but safer.

My strategy is make brood combs with big hives. I use pollen patty and terrarium heaters.

When the big hive has surplus new feeders, I give to small colonies a frame of emerging bees. A terrarium heater keeps alive those emerging bees. Witout heating most bees will catch cold in the perihheria pof the frame.



When a colony has one box full of bees, its build up will be normal.


If I give pollen patty to 4 frame colonies, brood will become sick and then combs are filled with chalkbrood. To give emerging brood is best way to accelerate build up of the small colonies.


The worst scenario is to split a good hive in spring, add new queens and start with several small colonies. That is waste of good colony.

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Without pollen patty not much build up will happen. Sugar does not make it.

If you have one box full of brood, it has needed one box full of pollen. It is not easy to get when weathers are cold.

Bees need 16C day temp that they can form good pollen balls onto their legs.

But no one should loose their hope. World is beautifull. But fact is that spring is cold.
 
Temperatures here are quite stable @ 9-10c for the next two weeks and bees are out doing orientation and cleansing flights although they are not collecting much pollen so they won't be brooding much at the moment so I'll be holding off syrup feeding until pollen is available, however if you are feeding pollen patties to encourage brood rearing for an early crop then they will need water too.

Bees get water allways in your nature. That is sure. Because they get here too if the snow does not cover the ground.

Syrup feeding untill pollen is avaiable? Why? It only fills the brood nest.

Where do you get good pollen patty in UK where protein content is 20-30%.

But you are right Redwood. I have noticed that bees are short of water every day untill they can get water from outside, and bees start to eate patty at afternoon.

That is why I will order now entrance feeders from Ebay

This one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pros-Choice-Best-Bee-Hive-Entrance-Feeder-Plastic-/221745687077

or

SKU078034(2).jpg
 
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I think the reading of the forecasts needs looking at carefully - yes - the high temperatures of the day look like being in double figures, but (here, anyway) that's only for a few hours each afternoon. There are a couple of days when double figures are forecast from midday to midnight - but they are the exception.

If you think back to previous years, this has happened before - the natural world wakes up, the fruit trees bud-up, and along come several very nasty frosts which completely knacker the year's fruit harvest.

Remember - it's not unknown for us to have snow in April, let alone March. I'd be inclined to not hit the starting gun just yet, unless you have a very special reason for doing so.

And then there's the belief and trust in weather forecasting itself ... The day before yesterday was forecast as warm and sunny - and so it was. A glorious day. Yesterday was forecast as being exactly the same ... but the day was heavily overcast, and not a single bee was flying. A crap day. Take the weather as it comes - enjoy the warm spells, because they may not last.
LJ
 
1C here this morning with 1 mph wind.

Syrup? I think not.

PH
 
1C here this morning with 1 mph wind.

Syrup? I think not.

PH

Yep...ice scraping this morning, and clusters have not even really broken yet, even in our southern bees. Even a couple of days ago the clusters were clamped down absolutely tight, the next day flying and taking pollen but by late afternoon again looked like it was in the middle of a severe freeze the clusters were so tight.

Actually we abandoned the early stimulative feeding long ago, and have not used 1:1 syrup for many many years, and after several years and several thousand pounds spent concluded that pollen supplement patties were not a good buy. By the end of the season the net gain was zilch, and indeed too early in kick starting them caused a lot of problems of early onset of instability and brood loss in snap frosts.

You may have a different viewpoint on that however if your main, and in some cases almost only, crop is OSR. Then its crucial to give them a boot up the derriere early.
 
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I fed pollen patty 20 years to get dandelion and garden honey. After 20 years I draw conclusion

- our spring weather is so cold that there are not much foraging days

- what a tiny hive gets, 15 kg honey often, it eates it when a cold or rainy week comes. The colony is soon 4 fold size compared to that which foraged early yield.

- patty feeding helps to build up of too small colonies that they get normal brooding start for main yield

- but patty feeding is funny.

- it really helps when raspberry gives its huge yield between 20.6- 5.7.
And it helps in summer rape foraging.

- it generates swarming, but that is easy to handle with AS. Big hives swarm first.


But, guys hate patty feeding, but same guys try to accelerate build up with sugar feeding. God may bless them.

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I tried syrup feeding in prior years. Our late frosts make that a waste of time...

So now it's pollen patties on colonies.. to catch the early spring flows round here. By June , the good weather stops and we tend to get summer - wet wet wet summers.
 

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