Are 14x12 brood boxes better?

[psafloyd]

untainted wax.

That is a little open to debate. Depends on what you mean exactly.

Many of the cells may have been brooded in before use as storage, but as in 'untainted from cheap imported wax as possibly used in foundation (or even UK sourced wax, maybe)', certainly only the local chemical residues will be present.

If we (framed hive users) made all our own foundation from melted-out super wax each year (as our only 'high quality' material), that might be marginally better than wax from a Warre.

Cappings from framed hives is always regarded as the highest quality; better, presumably, than that from a Warre.

Could be done, but has a large cost to the honey crop. That is one reason why a Warre does not get as large a crop as from framed hives?

Regards, RAB

RAB, I KNEW you would come back on that, as you're a pedant after my own heart.

I had written virgin wax and decided to delete it and use untainted instead.

You are of course right in that it is tainted as having been used as brood. But it hasn't been used very long, as the brood moves down the 'trunk' leaving the stores behind.

But the real point is it mostly (if not totally) made from wax produced by the bees. And that was what I meant by untainted.

Of course, we wouldn't melt out our super wax each year, as that would defeat the point of running frames, wouldn't it?

 

[oliver90owner]

as that would defeat the point of running frames, wouldn't it?

Err, no. The good old reverend L 'invented' the frame for the bee space. Nothing else, at the time, I believe.

You see, I read these posts and just wonder what the poster actually meant.

I just listened to an advert on the radio. Went like this:
------
Here is the sound of a glass washed in x

<<sound>>

Here is a glass washed in (super advertising-hype stuff) y.

<<different sound>>
------

What they didn't say was whether it was the same glass under standard testing conditions. When I pointed out this, to my wife, her response was 'I am reasonably intelligent and quite cynical, but I didn't think of that.'

Subtle ommisions can make all the difference, and I sometimes do it (very carefully and very much on purpose) when answering some posts. Amazing how different people either don't even notice it, or jump up and down in consternation at an ambiguous comment, without confirming the supposed meaning first. A measure of something, no doubt!

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

Help! I bought a 14x12 brood box late last year because I thought my WBC hive needed a bit more space. I now have no idea of the best way to do the changeover. Already I can see that it is a very strong colony and when I put the Queen excluder in last week I could see that there was drone brood in the super -(I didn't go through the brood box)
I wondered whether just to put all the fullest frames into the new bigger brood box - along with a few new 14x12 frames and then gradually replace as the season progresses....

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Help! I bought a 14x12 brood box late last year because I thought my WBC hive needed a bit more space. I now have no idea of the best way to do the changeover. Already I can see that it is a very strong colony and when I put the Queen excluder in last week I could see that there was drone brood in the super -(I didn't go through the brood box)
I wondered whether just to put all the fullest frames into the new bigger brood box - along with a few new 14x12 frames and then gradually replace as the season progresses....

Assuming this is a WBC size 14x12 then some options were discussed in a thread a few days ago - you may need a good supply of lifts if going for a Bailey change.

If not a WBC 14x12 then vertical changeover is plainly not possible. The main problem I can see with your gradual replacement plan is that you will get a lots of excess comb built under the smaller frames but it would probably be manageable - I'm sure others will be able to give a more comprehensive plan. Alternatively you could wait for the need to do an artificial swarm and move the queen plus her frame of brood into a nice shiny box of 14x12 foundation

 

[MJBee]

Assuming this is a WBC size 14x12 then some options were discussed in a thread a few days ago - you may need a good supply of lifts if going for a Bailey change.

If not a WBC 14x12 then vertical changeover is plainly not possible. The main problem I can see with your gradual replacement plan is that you will get a lots of excess comb built under the smaller frames but it would probably be manageable - I'm sure others will be able to give a more comprehensive plan. Alternatively you could wait for the need to do an artificial swarm and move the queen plus her frame of brood into a nice shiny box of 14x12 foundation

with MA's "alternative" it would be the quickest change-over method and the small frame used to effect the AS could be left in for the season and the resulting drone comb under it could be culled for varroa management. win win

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

It is a 14x12 WBC size brood box - and I wondered if the excess comb they build under the smaller frames would be mainly drone brood anyway - thus being part of my varroa management when I cut it all away!

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

It is a 14x12 WBC size brood box - and I wondered if the excess comb they build under the smaller frames would be mainly drone brood anyway - thus being part of my varroa management when I cut it all away!

This may be useful
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16169

but as I say, make sure you have sufficient lifts

 

[Lesley Hoppy]

This may be useful
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16169

but as I say, make sure you have sufficient lifts

Thank you M'sieur - I should have done a search before boring you all with what is obviously a FAQ !

 

[psafloyd]

I want to put my main colony on 14 x 12 as an experiment and have the box and frames all ready to go.
This is the queen's third year and she already has them motoring on 8/9 frames of brood and they're packing the super i put on a week or so ago.

The box is packed with bees and though I know there are issues about temperature for the drawing of wax if I go for bailey (which seems to make sense), if the weather (remember I am near that London) stays reasonable, do you think I can do that sooner rather than later and would I need to feed if there are plent of stores?

 

[MuswellMetro]

i have found baillie change 14x12 can be difficult for bees to draw fully

i have insulation of the 14x12 i am doing a baillie changer 50% ok and quen moved up, they other less well but all are drawing with feed

colony do much better if very strong and natural flow (OSR etc) but needs must

 

[Poly Hive]

I (on re-reading the thread) find I forgot to add the most obvious draw back for me... no poly version.

PH

 

[BBG]

The Naked Beekeeper

"The foundation in my experience is hard to get drawn out properly. I seemed to get holes in the corners more."

Bees are social - hence the holes they make to 'chat' while they work.

Oliver90Owner:

"Err, no. The good old reverend L 'invented' the frame for the bee space. Nothing else, at the time, I believe."

You think he spent all that time and effort for that alone. Dream on!

 

[johncorne]

Assuming this is a WBC size 14x12 then some options were discussed in a thread a few days ago - you may need a good supply of lifts if going for a Bailey change.

If not a WBC 14x12 then vertical changeover is plainly not possible....

Well - it is POSSIBLE, as last year I had a standard national BB above a WBC BB in a friends WBC hive. A suitable block of wood to fill the gap and hive straps to hold it in the right place seemed to do the trick.

Jc

 

[Baggyone]

I (on re-reading the thread) find I forgot to add the most obvious draw back for me... no poly version.

PH

I thought Payne's do a poly version now.

Baggy

 

[Poly Hive]

If they do it's not on their website. Langstroth, National and the nuc is all they are showing.

I have been informed that in fact they do sell a poly so please note the correction.

PH

 

[itma]

I (on re-reading the thread) find I forgot to add the most obvious draw back for me... no poly version.

Apart from the Pains one
Beehive Supplies also offer a poly 14x12

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Well - it is POSSIBLE, as last year I had a standard national BB above a WBC BB in a friends WBC hive. A suitable block of wood to fill the gap and hive straps to hold it in the right place seemed to do the trick.

Jc

I'm surprised the nat box fitted inside the lift, but fair enough if it did.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I thought Payne's do a poly version now.

Baggy

Yes, they do. It's on the same page as the rest of their poly National hives.

Currently :- Open Mesh Floor; 14x12 Jumbo Brood Box; 2 x poly Supers; Plastic Excluder; Poly Crownboard; Roof; Hive Strap for a few pennies less than a hundred pounds. Poly National 14x12 Jumbo Brood Box is currently less than £25.

 

[psafloyd]

as that would defeat the point of running frames, wouldn't it?

Err, no. The good old reverend L 'invented' the frame for the bee space. Nothing else, at the time, I believe.

The good reverend may have invented frames for bee space, but that is not the reason we use them, RAB. They are used because they are more convenient. While greater convenience has to suit the bees, the modular nature of the hives is of greater benefit to us.

 

[itma]

Apart from the Pains one
Beehive Supplies also offer a poly 14x12


Last edited by Hivemaker.; Yesterday at 04:01 PM.. Reason: Two commercial links removed as this member either does not understand them,or just likes to ignore them.

This member actually but mistakenly thought that he was in accord with established practice.

My profuse and public apologies for any transgression of a 'tightening-up' that I was unaware of.

This being second time, that I am aware of, that the same long-serving and well-respected member of the forum has mistakenly posted that no such product exists, and then followed up by posting that he couldn't find one on the website, I honestly thought it both helpful and appropriate to link, not only to that product, but also to another similar but competing product from a different supplier. Had I been aware of a third competitive product, I'd likely have compounded my error by linking to it as well.
It simply did not occur to me that posting these links, to two rival products, could be considered in the same light as commercial promotion.
Sorry!

I have no connection or affiliation (even as an user) of either linked product, as yet, though I will likely buy one or the other in future.
As a potential user of this type of hive, I hope to continue to glean knowledge from the product experience of others on this forum.
And knowledge of any other similar rival products that I could also consider.