advise on supering strong colony

[newportbuzz]

hi this is my first winter and so far i have still got 3 hives.
i treated for varoa on new years day and also got my gf to take some pics. all hives are on nat brood and a half. and i intend to split them for increase later on in the year.
when i was treating i noticed one hive was HUGE.
i have uploaded a pic of the brood and also the supper ontop of it. they are takin in the space of a 40 sec,s of each other it was about 6 degrees celcuis and calm.
they have 2 inch's of insulation under the roof.
setup is
floor
brood
half brood
crown board
insulation
roof.

now what i want to acheive is that i can add a brood box to this colony that the brood is split between two brood boxes so its easy to split later on in the year. i have a half drawn brood box spare.
how do i do it causing least trouble to the bees.
ps they have plenty of stores and i have not fed them anything since end of summer
these is the photos
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...=a.10150109591915929.281246.708475928&theater

 

[For want of a better word]

Have you been giving them Guinness ???

 

[newportbuzz]

im more of a cider man myself but i dont think they need the help of liquid bread.... they managed 6 stings while i was doing oa treatment.

 

[Poly Hive]

Pretty simple.

Put the next brood box on top with the drawn comb in the middle and the foundation on either side and work the boxes as they get on with them.

When they are well on with the top one add an excluder and super as normal.

I can't see the pics so can you upload on here please? You use the paper clip icon in the new message tool bar and the rest is a case of following the plot.

PH

 

[newportbuzz]

hi ph i think the pics should be on this reply.
so how should i remove the super in the brood sandwich?
also when should i add the extra brood as i dont want to drive them dow by adding all that space above them to cool them off.
View attachment 3185

View attachment 3186

 

[newportbuzz]

hi guys this is really just a bump

Any advise would be greatly apriciated as to when i can earliest add the brood box and how to remove the super without causing to much hassle for my bees.

 

[Poly Hive]

I cannot give you dates as who knows what is going to happen with the weather.

However in general I would do this:

Put your super with brood under the brood box. Put your new brood box on top, and then carry on as I already suggested.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

brood is split between two brood boxes so its easy to split later

Bit of a problem as already on a brood and a half. They may well be on double brood and a half for a while!

Put the shallow below the deep brood and encourage her upstairs. Q/E the shallow and remove when able - like it will take 3 weeks between excluding the queen if there are eggs in the shallow and possibly longer to shift any stores. Add the top brood when putting the shallow underneath. As per PH split brood in both top boxes, but maybe not immediately, as you would then have brood in 3 tiers. Depends on weather really, but you do need to avoid any chilled brood.

Adding/shifting broods, etc is not something Iwould put a date on. Do it when warm enough and/or when they need it.

An alternative is q/e the shallow and put the extra/new brood below the bottom brood nest. Wait thre weeks and that top shallow will be a honey super. Then sort out the bottom broods to split the brood between the two boxes if necessary.

Regards, RAB

 

[beeboybee]

that site looks rather damp for a hive?

 

[newportbuzz]

if you have a look in the top corner of the second pic you can actually see the sea about 15 feet away. it is fairly damp but very sheltered but i have moved them since the photo was taken.
thanks a lot for the advise i reckon ill put the super below the brood and leave them to it for a week to fix everything then add the second brood on top then super as normal and hopefully they will vacate the bottom super and i can move it above as a normal super. if not then i could end up spliting into one brood + half and one brood.
ill move super down in a few days. weather is promised warmer and wet.
Any advise on min temp needed to swap super and brood . There is brace comb between super and brood so i will wake them from their slumber with my fumblings

 

[winmag270]

personally i'd be thinking that it's a few weeks too early to be causing that much disturbance to a hive......

 

[oliver90owner]

this is my first winter and so far

That's what the OP wrote. One assumes, from that, we are only so far through winter. This a spring-time job; that super of stores may yet be needed.

RAB

 

[newportbuzz]

this is my first winter and so far

That's what the OP wrote. One assumes, from that, we are only so far through winter. This a spring-time job; that super of stores may yet be needed.

RAB

so should i wait till my first inspection to do this?
Its just that from the size of the hive i feel they might not all be there then?? The only upside is that it is a new queen mated in mid july 10 so she may stick around. also they are a local mongrel breed. This is why i am asking for advise.
if i wasnt splitting i would just put a super on in a week or two depending on how busy the hive looks.

 

[oliver90owner]

You are thinking they might swarm shortly?

 

[newportbuzz]

You are thinking they might swarm shortly?

well they are using all of both a super and a brood so i thought that when they get a chance they will proberly go. (say 30 days for drones to be mature and then 15 for swarm prep so i wouldnt be to suprised if they are well on their way by march.) i hope i am wrong. But compared to my other two colonys this one is a monster, colony one 6 frames, colony two 4 frames, and this one.
I was told to do my first spring inspection when the flowering current is out which i believe is mid to late march . Would that be to late to do this?

 

[Hombre]

First inspections are maybe mid March if the weather is looking up.

they seem to be a big colony, but It is highly unlikely that you will see any preparation for swarming much before the end of April.

They will have to be pulling a lot of pollen in to maintain/build their numbers as they are.Have you been feeding them pollen/substitute patties at all? It's a bit early even for that.

Nice and healthy by the look of them though.

 

[newportbuzz]

First inspections are maybe mid March if the weather is looking up.

they seem to be a big colony, but It is highly unlikely that you will see any preparation for swarming much before the end of April.

They will have to be pulling a lot of pollen in to maintain/build their numbers as they are.Have you been feeding them pollen/substitute patties at all? It's a bit early even for that.

Nice and healthy by the look of them though.

i am not feeding any pollen infact i had been removing frames of brood untill mid september to keep a hospital case alive. it also donated its flying bees once for the same case. i dread to think how big it would be if i wasnt weakening it. so you think i will have no problem with swarm prep before end of april.
So should i wait for the first flow to add the second brood to them? it is a big cavity for them to heat????

 

[Poly Hive]

Ok two things here.

One is the flowering current signal for inspections. Rubbish. Utter and total rubbish.

In Aberdeenshire that happened roughly mid April. I started inspections in late Feb and working the bees then too.

This massive colony of yours that is causing so much concern. Is the queen laying by now? Possibly a few yes.

How old are most of your bees?

How worried should you be now?

If you are not with me on this then what I am saying is that you are about to have a massive death rate combined with a low hatch rate. Your big one is about to diminish a fair bit.

At the moment all this is theory of course so be prepared to modify your theory that you are going to have a swarm in March? Can't say I have ever seen one at that time but as the tag says, bees do nothing invariably.

This is 31/1/11 very very early yet, still in fact mid winter.

PH

 

[Heather]

I agree.
I would leave well alone till mid March (if weather is good-not if back in deep snow!) - then do a manipulation of super below and new brood box above original brood box.
As PH says -drawn foundation in centre of new brood box, new to outside. Maybe a syrup feed above crown board- encouraging them up. Don't forget- a big colony can be hungrier than a small one,and they have foundation to draw out.

When she is up into the top box, and it has developed in strength - maybe split the 2 brood boxes into two colonies leaving the queenless one with a frame of eggs to get a new queen kicking off.

Hombre- I picked up my first swarm last year end of March!

 

[mbc]

I agree entirely to PH's post above.
Remember that in most years, february is the coldest month.
Swarming is highly unlikely to commence untill a couple of brood cycles after you see the first dandelions ( in my experience, in my area ).