Advice please - best way to reverse unnecessary AS

[SimonB]

Firstly I should say that I now recognise that the decision making that led to the situation I'm in was flawed but I have now learnt my lesson for the next time. This is my first Spring with bees, so it's all new to me.

3 weeks ago last weekend I culled some drone brood, but made a little bit of a mess, there was comb left behind on the walls and floor. I angled the brood box up to try to scrape it out and used the entrance block to try to poke the comb off the walls. In the end I got stung on the nose (fencing veil pressed to face when bending) and banged the poor bees about probably more than was really necessary.

Since there was only brood on about 4 frames I decided to leave them for a couple of weeks to recover from my meddling.

Opened them a week last Sunday and they were pretty full. On inspection I found 4 or 5 sealed queen cells and several unsealed. My queen is not marked, and have never seen her. Given the quantity of bees I made the snap assessment that they hadn't yet swarmed. I was unprepared in several ways

1. had not recently revised swarm control methods
2. had no equipment ready to expand the hive space
3. did not have the presence of mind to check for eggs

Cutting the length of the story short, last Friday I ASed them, even though I could find no eggs. I did find very young larva which I felt to be less than 4 days old, ie they were laid after I had inspected them on the Sunday when the apparent number of bees had not changed, and so they still hadn't swarmed.

I couldn't find the queen within 30 minutes, tried the pairing of the frames method, but just too many bees and probably too little experience. So I used the method I had seen posted on here to divide them - brush all bees into fresh brood box, old brood box on top with brood over QX, leave for a few hours then split them. Old brood box had one unsealed QC.

Checked them today. Old brood box - unsealed QC now looks to be empty but two new sealed QCs. Bees seem pretty calm, but then not that warm. New brood box in which I transferred one frame of brood with unsealed brood. No eggs and 5-6 sealed QCs on the face of the frame, which must be emergency QCs. In other words I have split a Q- hive.

My thought is to combine them back again but what would be the best way. Was the split recent enough that I don't need to do a newspaper combine, I can just shake all bees back into original brood box and return the lone frame?

If I do need to use the newspaper method, does it matter which brood box goes on top.

I presume I am right in judging that I have at least 4-5 days before any of the new queens emerge. My assumption is that I can simply move the united colony back to its original location without any problem before that time?

Ultimately any queen is possibly going to be less than ideal, so I imagine the advice would be to requeen - when would be the best time? I am not fussed about the size of any honey crop, but would like to get some. Should I wait to see the quality of the queen?

Finally, yes I do have a mentor, but other than a very brief visit last year and a couple of emails that's all the interaction I have had, and so was not my first thought to contact him. I'm also quite independent and believed I could resolve any issue on my own. In hindsight that was probably poor judgement.

Many thanks
Simon

 

[Polyanwood]

This is a useful post Simon as the replies should help lots of us.

My view on the specific questions:

Yes you should use newspaper to recombine.

It doesn't really matter which box goes on top to the bees, but there is a small advantage in not messing about with the queen cells, so as to avoid damaging them, so if it makes no odds put other box on top of the one with QCs.

The useful learning here is that if the QCs are sealed and there are swarm cells, it is usually too late.

I did four artificial swarms at the weekend. I urge people to look very closely inside those things that look like play cups to check if they are charged, and if they are, to take action. Also don't go destroying charged queen cups if you find them until you are certain you are not queenless...

 

[warts]

Hi Simon
I am in no way qualified to give you any expert advice in your situation as I am only in my third year (well, 2.5 years really)...however, I am sure somebody soon will come and answer your question/s (I do not want to give duff advice).

However, from my own limited experience I will say that I have found having two hives better than one (my second was unintentional, but such is life as a new beekeeper!). Having two hives both gives me a yardstick by which to measure, and also an emergency back-up if I need it. So if the advice is you keep the two as separate, I can vouch for the fact that it only takes a little more time (hardly noticeable), and does offer some benefits.

Good luck with resolving the situation

PS ah-hah, you have an answer already (I am clearly very slow typing)...

 

[Poly Hive]

FWIW I would leave well alone now. The bees have been, lets be kind and say worked... so they have had enough stress and it also sounds as if the beekeeper has too.

I suggest to leave them as they are now as you now have two chances at a successful mating and also to go into winter with two colonies. I realise winter seems ages away but the canny bee person always has an eye on the remaining time until the dormant season and plans accordingly.

Let them be until you have mated queens working for you again and then reassess.

PH

 

[SimonB]

Thank you for the advice so far

lets be kind ...

No need, I freely admit that the bees have been subject to a certain amount of abuse, not through any malice, but lack of experience and a desire to be as hasty as possible when manipulating them so they were not open for too long.

I would like two colonies, now didn't seem the right time though with two scrub queens.

Since this is essentially a split, is there any need to now follow the AS procedure. The moved hive is not in an ideal location and if I can move it to its final location now that would be helpful?

Also should I leave all QCs intact? What would have been the Q+ hive doesn't seem to have that many bees, so are they likely to cast?

The what should be the Q- hive has only 2 QCs, I would imagine best left alone for redundancy?

 

[xgeordie]

Also don't go destroying charged queen cups if you find them until you are certain you are not queenless...

I'm going to tatoo this onto my hand. Grrrrrrrr.

 

[Poly Hive]

I would leave them alone.

When you have your queens mated you can assess as I say and think about buying in if you are unhappy with what results.

PH

 

[SimonB]

Thanks PH et al.

One last question, as much as I understand your POV about leaving them be to recover, the colonies are a little imbalanced at the moment. Would you recommend feeding the 'new' colony (that is mostly foundation)?

Thanks