Advice for re-queening and aggressive hive

[Antipodes]

These bees were horrible. We moved the hive 5m and tried to bleed off the fliers, but when we closed the NUC (put in place of the hive) to move it as well, when we opened it there were very few bees in it.

It's interesting that very few bees went to back to the original spot. How long did you wait before looking in the nuc box that was in the stead of the original colony?

 

[Michael Palmer]

The colony has now been split, one brood box will have the queen, one won't, both have eggs. The idea is to see if the colony with the new queen will be noticeably calmer or if they will carry on as they are. Either way, I'm not sure I want the colony back, not unless we re-queen from eggs from one of the calm colonies, but for now the problem is solved.

Now that you have split the colony, I would expect the temper to ease. Enough to find that old queen.
So why not purchase two queens from a good stock, and requeen both hives? Allowing the old colony to raise their own queen
will likely result in another colony like the original. IMO

 

[debbie.jane61]

Im following this with great interest as Im in a similar situation. Im a novice in my first year and the learning curve is very steep!
But I have a couple of questions. Do I wait until the queen has arrived before I try and find the old queen? (am really not looking forward to that!!) or do I find her before the new one arrives but keep my eye on potential queen cells? How long can the queen survive in her delivery box if I cant find the old queen?

 

[madasafish]

Im following this with great interest as Im in a similar situation. Im a novice in my first year and the learning curve is very steep!
But I have a couple of questions. Do I wait until the queen has arrived before I try and find the old queen? (am really not looking forward to that!!) or do I find her before the new one arrives but keep my eye on potential queen cells? How long can the queen survive in her delivery box if I cant find the old queen?

My advice: try to find the Q now and put her in a cage with a few attendants .Place back in hive so bees don't become vile. Then requeen at leisure.
Try again another day if you fail to find Q first time. (I assume bees will be horrible after the handling).
You can keep Qs in delivery box if watered for 2-3 days but not really recommended.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Im following this with great interest as Im in a similar situation. Im a novice in my first year and the learning curve is very steep!
But I have a couple of questions. Do I wait until the queen has arrived before I try and find the old queen? (am really not looking forward to that!!) or do I find her before the new one arrives but keep my eye on potential queen cells? How long can the queen survive in her delivery box if I cant find the old queen?

you don't want the colony to be queenless for more than a few minutes as, especially with a stroppy colony it will be harder to get them to accept the queen. One idea may be to move the vile colony a good few yards away from the present location, leaving an empty box in its place, wait an hour or so, by this time, all the flying bees (which are usually the ones up for a fight) will be at the old location wondering what on earth as happened, leaving you with a much depleted hive to go through to find the queen.
Once the deed is done, move the hive back.
Another option is to make up a nuc with the new queen, wait until it's established and then get rid of the old queen and unite. (I think that's been mentioned somewhere already)

 

[Erichalfbee]

Another option is to make up a nuc with the new queen, wait until it's established and then get rid of the old queen and unite. (I think that's been mentioned somewhere already)

That’s always the way I requeen nasty bees.

 

[debbie.jane61]

That’s always the way I requeen nasty bees.

Unfortunately I dont have a nuc, its on my shopping list.

 

[debbie.jane61]

you don't want the colony to be queenless for more than a few minutes as, especially with a stroppy colony it will be harder to get them to accept the queen. One idea may be to move the vile colony a good few yards away from the present location, leaving an empty box in its place, wait an hour or so, by this time, all the flying bees (which are usually the ones up for a fight) will be at the old location wondering what on earth as happened, leaving you with a much depleted hive to go through to find the queen.
Once the deed is done, move the hive back.
Another option is to make up a nuc with the new queen, wait until it's established and then get rid of the old queen and unite. (I think that's been mentioned somewhere already)

I like this idea but I have very old and heavy boxes. I seriously doubt I could lift the box, let alone carry It. And my partner is adamant he wont help if theres any chance of getting stung!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Unfortunately I dont have a nuc, its on my shopping list.

Get one then requeen?
Or do you have another full size hive you can dummy down?

 

[E&MBees]

Do you know anyone who could help you? Are you a member of your local association? An extra pair of hands and eyes might make all the difference. Good luck

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I like this idea but I have very old and heavy boxes. I seriously doubt I could lift the box, let alone carry It. And my partner is adamant he wont help if theres any chance of getting stung!

Maybe you need to change both old queen and partner? Set correct priorities!

 

[Erichalfbee]

I like this idea but I have very old and heavy boxes. I seriously doubt I could lift the box, let alone carry It. And my partner is adamant he wont help if theres any chance of getting stung!

Change to poly boxes. Get a decent gentle Buckfast queen from a reliable source and your partner will be safe

 

[debbie.jane61]

Do you know anyone who could help you? Are you a member of your local association? An extra pair of hands and eyes might make all the difference. Good luck

I have someone coming to help today

 

[debbie.jane61]

Change to poly boxes. Get a decent gentle Buckfast queen from a reliable source and your partner will be safe

I am seriously considering changing. I was given a poly super and its so much easier to handle even when fully loaded. I need to change all my brood frames, they are so old and black, I might change to poly at the same time.

 

[ericbeaumont]

change to poly

Best option is the Abelo 11-frame box, with an Ashforth feeder instead of the crownboard. Buy 4 supers for next year.

https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/nation...tional/national-poly-ashforth-hive-blue-grey/

 

[debbie.jane61]

Get one then requeen?
Or do you have another full size hive you can dummy down?

I do have a spare hive. How many frames do I use? and make the rest with dummy boards?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Order your queen. On the day she is to arrive make up your nuc.
You need two frames of brood preferably capped. One frame of food and a drawn frame or take a part filled frame out of the parent hive plus a frame of foundation between the capped brood and the food. Shake three or four frames worth of bees from the brood box or a whole super into it. Take the nuc box away a few feet.
Put your new queen in her introduction cage suspended between the two brood frames.
Dummy it down with some insulation.

 

[Swarm]

I have someone coming to help today

What was the outcome?

 

[blackcloud]

Be prepared to top up the new colony with bees shaken off super frames if it gets depleted.(some will have returned back to the old one)

 

[debbie.jane61]

What was the outcome?

We found the feisty queen and marked her, put her in a clip between frames until new queen arrived. Putting the new queen in was nasty as they were very aggressive but two stings later she was inserted between frames and the old queen squished, that wasnt a nice thing to do. Three days later, delayed by bad weather, there was no sign that the bees were attacking her. I struggled to get the tabs off as I was nervous of them and shaking so much but they seemed calmer already. Now to wait until friday to check for supercedure.

I wore a forensic style paper suit under my bee suit as extra layer of protection. Any opinions on if it would work/help? Apart from being incredibly hot! Bee stings hurt but its the 3 days of incessant itching that Id like to avoid.