additional holes for keeping cool?

[birdsandbees]

I was reading a post on Book face this morning posted by someone regarding the issues with Beekeeping in very hot climate, with external temps around 100 degrees the answer they were all posting in reply was to drill extra holes in the hives in the higher levels and lift the crown board up.
I was thinking about this both in terms of what occurs naturally and comparing it to a house, to my mind adding extra holes in the upper levels encourages convection drawing more hot air in from outside the hive, like the effect you get when opening a loft hatch in your house on a hot summers day ( I know its a rare event in this country)
I suggested that providing shade and insulation was the best course of action rather than peppering the hive with holes which renders the bees unable to regulate the internal temperature.
needless to say I was shot down in flames and told that fanning at the entrance was more associated with spreading pheromones??

anyhoo! just thought I'd see what you lot thought about the subject? am I wrong?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

People have this obsession with additional holes all over the hives.
Working on bee projects in Lesotho (where at the moment temperatures are climbing towards around 40 degrees celsius) our conventional (Langstroth) hives were on solid floors, were permanently fitted with the reduced winter entrances, solid wood roof/crownboard (no silly little holes whatsoever) all sheltered under a corrugated tin sheet.
The African Top bar hives again had no ventilation holes, no OMF, solid wooden cover above the top bars, a couple of double beespace entrance holes then a galvanised steel sheet over that.
Didn't see any hives set up any different than that and they all fared fine.
So where did this clown keep bees? Torquay?

 

[Motobiman]

Years ago I saw hives in Greece in blazing sun with the lids propped open with stones about 100mm on the upwind side and 25mm on the opposite side, Venturi effect maybe.

The crown boards had 25mm holes all around the edges.

The hives were close to the ground and the heat was shattering.

The bees were nowhere to be seen but i understood from sign language they were fanning just under the roof and he would close the hives up each night and open them again mid morning.

 

[Motobiman]

Sorry phone call.

He also had lots of water troughs around and I did see some bees 'drinking' so I assumed it was to achieve some sort of evaporative cooling effect inside the hives.

 

[Finman]

These things have been explained in internet. You may start with keywords "heat control beehive".

Then we can think the time, when bees had their nest natural tree cavities and no one was drilling holes in Africa.

 

[user 6228]

I was reading a post on Book face this morning posted by someone regarding the issues with Beekeeping in very hot climate, with external temps around 100 degrees the answer they were all posting in reply was to drill extra holes in the hives in the higher levels and lift the crown board up.
I was thinking about this both in terms of what occurs naturally and comparing it to a house, to my mind adding extra holes in the upper levels encourages convection drawing more hot air in from outside the hive, like the effect you get when opening a loft hatch in your house on a hot summers day ( I know its a rare event in this country)
I suggested that providing shade and insulation was the best course of action rather than peppering the hive with holes which renders the bees unable to regulate the internal temperature.
needless to say I was shot down in flames and told that fanning at the entrance was more associated with spreading pheromones??

anyhoo! just thought I'd see what you lot thought about the subject? am I wrong?

no you are not wrong... what they forget or never learned is :
insulation slows down heat flow it does make things hotter
bees need to maintain high humidity as well as temperature inside the hive.

Drilling extra holes lets hot air in and lets water vapour out.

Reduce heat gain by ventilated shade e.g. tin roof spaced off top of hive ( as in Landy safari roof)
insulate to help bees retain the reduced temperature caused by evaporation under their control. Dont open extra holes this can cause dehydration. Let the bees maintain the temperature humidity profile.

 

[birdsandbees]

So where did this clown keep bees? Torquay?

Paraguay apparently, not sure about one of the posters location but he said heat isn't a problem for bees but the must have lots of ventilation
I haven't bothered posting anything more but I was tempted!
Thanks all for the sane opinions, bees seem to be in more danger from beekeepers than anything else.

 

[Bee Bumble]

additional holes for keeping cool?

Only appropriate for designer jeans.

 

[Finman]

I haven't bothered posting anything more but I was tempted!
Thanks all for the sane opinions, bees seem to be in more danger from beekeepers than anything else.

Weathers in UK are far from hot. You are mad to ventiate your hives anyway, is it cold, moist hot or what ever. Allways add ventilation!!!!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Paraguay - that little village just North of Llandysul

 

[Finman]

no you are not wrong... what they forget or never learned is :
insulation slows down heat flow it does make things hotter
bees need to maintain high humidity as well as temperature inside the hive.

Drilling extra holes lets hot air in and lets water vapour out.

Reduce heat gain by ventilated shade e.g. tin roof spaced off top of hive ( as in Landy safari roof)
insulate to help bees retain the reduced temperature caused by evaporation under their control. Dont open extra holes this can cause dehydration. Let the bees maintain the temperature humidity profile.

Bees take care themselves. Your summer temps are nothing to them,.

 

[oliver90owner]

100 degrees? You mean 38? What is the brood nest temperature requirement? No amount of fanning will reduce the air temperature in the hive without evaporation (see latent heat of evaporation). Bees look after themselves perfectly well without the continual interference from humans. They will simply import more water (liquid or as nectar) as necessary in virtually all situations. If it were too hot, they would not inhabit that area/region.

 

[Finman]

.
Somebody was reading from Facebook that somebody is drilling holes in hives and lifting roofs.

Now whole Britain is making holes into hives and it is so good.

I have written that I have an 15 mm upper enctrance in front wall of the box, and it has been mad idea.

I looked from Google Greek hives, and I did not see hole rows in beehives.


........ Carry on drilling.... ....

 

[Fusion_power]

Hot and humid is different from cool and humid, hot and dry, or cool and dry. I've found that a hole 20 mm wide by 10 mm high at the top of the hive vented under the cover works pretty well. If the bees don't like the air flow, they block off the hole with propolis. Instead of me telling the bees what to do, I let them tell me what they want. Most of the time, they leave the hole open at least large enough for a drone to pass through.

A piece of corrugated metal on the roof with air able to flow between the metal and the top of the hive will protect the woodenware and add years to the wood's lifespan. Hot and humid tends to rot pine wood in about 7 years even if it is thoroughly sealed with paint. That is one reason to use a rot resistant wood like cypress or cedar. Adding the metal cover can keep the wood in good condition for up to 40 years.

 

[Finman]

, I let them tell me what they want. Most of the time, they leave the hole open at least large enough for a drone to pass through.
.

That is the reason why your hives are cold.
.

 

[Fusion_power]

A hive kept here with no upper ventilation is usually a dead hive. I prefer my hives alive and queens laying come spring.

 

[Finman]

. I prefer my hives alive and queens laying come spring.

However you could reduce the entrance that bees do not need to do it with propolis.

When I had Caucasian bees, they were eager to do that.

 

[birdsandbees]

Seems to be some confusion over where these hives are?
They are not in the UK and the temperature quoted (100F) is what was being quoted so yes for those that have forgotten or never knew Imperial that's pretty much 38C
The people making the holes or suggesting making holes aren't in the UK Finny as that would be ludicrous!
One poster is from Oklahoma and recommends 1/2 inch holes in all boxes, that's about 13mm before I get corrected.
Looking into it more the main question was whether having QE's fitted makes hives hotter and whether having metal or plastic QE's would alter the temperature inside the hive?

 

[Finman]

Seems to be some confusion over where these hives are?
They are not in the UK and the temperature :

It is very easy to see everywhere, how much bees need air to their hives. I look it from number of ventilators.

I have 50 years experince about beekeeping and I know how much bees need air.

It is not difficult to ask from experienced beekeepers, what kind of ventilation hives need in each country.

After loosing some hives you learn how to do it.

Bees stand many kind of ventilation systems.
The more bigger the hive the more better it stands unexperinced beekeepers.

And Britain is not difficult over wintering country. It puts the hive into danger if the colony continues its brooding. Then it consumes fast food stores.

- ventilation is not danger factor in Britain in wintering and
- ventilation is not danger factor in summer . You do not have hot summers out there.
- 20C is not hot to bees. They have eveloped in Africa.
.
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The people making the holes or suggesting making holes aren't in the UK Finny as that would be ludicrous!

Why spoil a good argument with the facts?

One poster is from Oklahoma and recommends 1/2 inch holes in all boxes, that's about 13mm before I get corrected.

That figures - probably too busy trying to work out how his mother is also his aunty to worry about hive ventilation