accidental brood and a half !

[newbie]

At the end of last season I left each of my 3 hives with a super to keep them going. They also had a block of fondant each later on. There are no Queen excluders on obviously.
I did my first inspection recently, and all 3 colonies have laying queens which is great. However in the brood box there are only 2 or 3 frames near the front with some (about 1/5th of the frame) sealed brood and eggs on. Directly above those 2 or 3 frames there is also a small similar amount of brood (sealed + eggs) in the super.
The rest of the brood box is drawn and has some stores, but no brood. There is one frame that has gone a bit mouldy too.
The rest of the super is either drawn or has sealed stores on.
So they have enough food, but will they be ok with their brood nest on 2 levels ? Should I do anything (although I can't think what !) ? They have got off to a slow start like everywhere this year. I did cut off some of the mouldy bit and hope they clean up the rest .
What do you think please ?

 

[domino]

I did the same as you, I've split them back into a brood box and super now. I've popped a QE between the two and as the brood hatches in the super they'll clean the comb. Brood and a half is a pain to manage which is why I'm moving onto 12x14s.

 

[itma]

Most colonies are pretty good at clearing up.

As you have WBC's, (with a brood box smaller than a standard National), running brood and a half should help you to avoid swarms.
I don't like brood and a half - but its better than a mini brood box!

14x12 is easier than multi-brood -- but see how you get on with the bigger brood space before investing in new boxes and frames. (You can get a WBC 14x12 brood box...)

I like 14x12. But some don't. Check out your options!

 

[Dishmop]

I have discovered that bees dont understand the concept that the big areas of wax are for eggs and the small ones upstairs are for storing their food. All the trouble we go to and they just go and do their own thing!!!

I see from my obs hive that what they actually do is lay eggs in the middle, which means some on the central lower area of the upper frames and the top central area of the lower frames, i.e. the warmest area, and the honey goes over the top of the brood. Taking a quick look for stores it seems as if there isnt any, but if I shine a torch I can see the honey in the bottom of quite a lot of the cells.

 

[Swarm]

At the end of last season I left each of my 3 hives with a super to keep them going. They also had a block of fondant each later on. There are no Queen excluders on obviously.
I did my first inspection recently, and all 3 colonies have laying queens which is great. However in the brood box there are only 2 or 3 frames near the front with some (about 1/5th of the frame) sealed brood and eggs on. Directly above those 2 or 3 frames there is also a small similar amount of brood (sealed + eggs) in the super.
The rest of the brood box is drawn and has some stores, but no brood. There is one frame that has gone a bit mouldy too.
The rest of the super is either drawn or has sealed stores on.
So they have enough food, but will they be ok with their brood nest on 2 levels ? Should I do anything (although I can't think what !) ? They have got off to a slow start like everywhere this year. I did cut off some of the mouldy bit and hope they clean up the rest .
What do you think please ?

Check that area of brood in the super, you will probably find queenie happily laying away. Let her run into the brood box and then put an excluder on before replacing the super.

 

[newbie]

Thanks all, last season I had the colonies on double brood boxes but found them rather heavy to handle on my own, so I might see how I get on with brood and a half this year. In 10 years time I might have decided what to do !

 

[DanBee]

However in the brood box there are only 2 or 3 frames near the front with some (about 1/5th of the frame) sealed brood and eggs on. Directly above those 2 or 3 frames there is also a small similar amount of brood (sealed + eggs) in the super.

This is the classic brood and a half problem. You want to rearrange frames, but can't.

As others have suggested, use a queen excluder to keep her downstairs; worth ensuring that there is good empty comb either side of the current brood so she has an obvious & close place to lay. Keep the shallow brood above the deep brood if you do shuffle frames around to achieve this.

 

[user 6228]

Check that area of brood in the super, you will probably find queenie happily laying away. Let her run into the brood box and then put an excluder on before replacing the super.

if you reckon that bees natural habitat is 1.5m tall by 0.2 wide (roughly average etc), this isnt much of a surprise. You could dummy out the super on each side of the brood, or do nothing. In either case keep the insulation on the roof.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Newbie, I hope you don't mind me extending the theme a little?

It may help to get advice.

One of my hives is in brood and a half. On a recent warm day I took a look. The main part of the brood, and most of the the stores, were in the super. There was brood in the brood box, but most frames were empty.

I intend to move to 14 x 12 and have an appropriate eke.

My plan is, at the next inspection, to put the super under the bb and add the eke. At the same time I will swap some of the empty bb frames for 14 x 12 foundation; say 4/5 frames. I'll then, of course, gradually move the others to the side and replace.

Is this a good plan - or too much?

The colony is medium size and they've had 3.5 litres of 1:1 syrup this week.

Dusty

 

[Luminos]

Newbie, I hope you don't mind me extending the theme a little?

It may help to get advice.

One of my hives is in brood and a half. On a recent warm day I took a look. The main part of the brood, and most of the the stores, were in the super. There was brood in the brood box, but most frames were empty.

I intend to move to 14 x 12 and have an appropriate eke.

My plan is, at the next inspection, to put the super under the bb and add the eke. At the same time I will swap some of the empty bb frames for 14 x 12 foundation; say 4/5 frames. I'll then, of course, gradually move the others to the side and replace.

Is this a good plan - or too much?

The colony is medium size and they've had 3.5 litres of 1:1 syrup this week.

Dusty

It's a great plan until the brood in the super hatches, and they start storing pollen in it

 

[Finman]

My plan is, at the next inspection, to put the super under the bb and add the eke.

At the same time I will swap some of the empty bb frames for 14 x 12 foundation; say 4/5 frames. I'll then, of course, gradually move the others to the side and replace.


Dusty

what is "eke"

plan and next inspection ......why don't you just do it.....

 

[galileo]

what is "eke".

It's really just an extension or a spacer.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/nateke.html

 

[oliver90owner]

I have discovered that bees dont understand the concept that the big areas of wax are for eggs and the small ones upstairs are for storing their food. All the trouble we go to and they just go and do their own thing!!!

Ever thought of what they do and why?

Warmth is the answer.

 

[drstitson]

"This is the classic brood and a half problem. You want to rearrange frames, but can't."

you can - put the brooded super frames down and use the free drone comb built below them for varroa trapping.

 

[rockdoc]

I tried bb above with super below this winter to try and avoid the op's problem. All I can say is it worked this year with all my queens laying in the bb above. So I simply made sure queeny was in the bb, and then reversed the order plus a qx.

 

[newbie]

I agree Drstiltson, and good idea, rockdoc.
Did you just put your full super under the BB at the end of last season ?
Daft question, but I presume they took the stores up when needed ok ?

 

[newbie]

sorry, I meant Drstitson ! -

 

[thisgardener]

we keep on brood and a half through winter and have never had any problems with placing layed up frames from the super into the brood box. good luck