A positive One Size Box / 'Rose' Method discussion

[bjosephd]

Hello everybody,

I know this topic is a little controversial, and there are various threads about it's advocacy etc etc...

However, who out there, on here, uses a one size box system of any description (with limited excluder use, multi box brood area etc), is experienced in its various quirks and stuff, and actually loves it as a system having experimented with other approaches.

If this is you I'd love to chat about it.

Also if you are genuinely interested in trying out this system.

I'd like to stress that this is not a discussion about whether I or anyone should or should not use this system... it's for those that do or would like to.

B

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ask Finman

 

[Arfermo]

Better still, don't ask anybody!!!!

 

[Finman]

.
Heh heh. I have nursed hives 50 years without excluder. I have two size boxes, langstroth and mediums. Boath are needed.

Big hives and good pastures. That are my principles.

UK beeks are mad with their mesh floors, ventilations and excluders. No one can save them, not even Mr Rose.

If I do not get 100 kg/hive, I must find better pastures

Today is first day when bees can forage in willows.

.

 

[bjosephd]

Thanks Finman, good to know there are experienced people in this kind of approach. Where best to find out more? The only book on the subject is the Rose book it seems. What more do you have to say? Solid wood floor you recommend then?

Sadly I am in no position to affect the pasture of my local area, but it is the deep countryside so I believe there is a fair amount around... one way to find out!

 

[BeeJayBee]

A lot of commercial beekeepers use one size of box throughout because it means everything is compatible, is quicker etc..

 

[wessexmario]

Having read about the rose hive method, and having all national kit, I have decided that this year I'm going to run with double brood boxes and minimal use of queen excluders.

I am using a double national brood for the benefits of being able to make splits or manipulate brood frames more easily, I'm quite strong so regularly lifting full brood boxes won't be a problem for me.

I'm not going to restrict the hive using QXs unless I need to as part of a hive manipulation, wanting to discover exactly what my strain of bees prefer in terms of brood nest [and stores] size and location.
Ok, it's going to be more difficult to find my queens, but hey, that's going to be a valuable part of the learning curve without impacting the bees and I can see positives in the freedom it gives both the queen and foragers, and the possible increased yeald that many no-qx advocates say can happen.

I feel I'm going to learn far more about what the bees want to do without a QX, which after all is used very much for the convenience of the beek rather than any direct benefit to the bees.

 

[La Folie]

We are also moving to the Rose hive principle this year, but using medium Langstroth boxes as I have a lot of Langstroth kit. So far no issues but we will see what the season brings.

 

[Finman]

Mesh floor is cold, and it forges the queen lay upstairs. So you must use excluder. If I add too much ventilation, the queen rise to lay even to topmost 6th box inside honey frames.

I use in midd summer 3 brood boxes (langstroth), and usually lowest box is act as pollen store.

 

[bjosephd]

wessexmario!

Sounds good, and you're not far from me... I'm in North Somerset, near Cheddar of cheese fame and Thatchers Cider's 50,000+ apple trees!

I have ordered the Rose book and will be really interested to hear updates of any 'lessons learned' with your new approach, it sounds like the direction I'd like to take. You close to getting the second box on yet? Are you going to ad the second brood box below the full one?

B

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

I followed Finman last year (my first) and ended up with the most almighty mess in 5 boxes; the SBI was appalled as he worked his way up through it till he hit this huge brood nest at the top. That taught me something about QEs. And it gave 74 lbs of honey. I learnt a lot and am going to aim at a bit more order this year.

 

[bjosephd]

Hey Finman... interesting...

What benefits do BritKeepers think the mesh floor adds?

 

[bjosephd]

TryingToLetThemBee hello!

So you like the approach but got in a bit of a mess? Or you have decided that it's not for you? Did all that space and 5 boxes keep the swarming down? Have you Just seen Finman's comment about how a mesh floor pushes the queen and therefore brood nest to the top of the hive? This is all very interesting. Bee keeping really is nerd heaven.

 

[wessexmario]

that's good to know, Finman.
I have mesh floors, I have been keeping them with the inspection board not quite fully in, with a couple of centimetres open gap at the front end of the hive. I was wondering whether to open it up more when it gets warmer, I think I'll just keep them as they are all year and see what happens.

I'll expect then this summer to find the brood nest nearer the back of the hive, let's see.

 

[wessexmario]

Hey Finman... interesting...

What benefits do BritKeepers think the mesh floor adds?

Mesh floors are invaluable for monitoring and removing mites, and will also help in the same way with SHB when it arrives, but I think that the commercially available mesh floors are too shallow.
They don't give enough room to enclose a vapouriser, which is easier to apply under the mesh rather than pushing through the entrance (which also isn't an option for me as I have periscope entrances.) I think a shallow floor also allows too much air movement to force it's way into the hive when the inspection board is not in place, a deeper floor box makes a better baffle against the wind.

 

[bjosephd]

So maybe split the difference by having a mesh floor but keeping the inspection tray in for most of the time?

(edit: oops, that's exactly what you said above! Sorry)

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

TryingToLetThemBee hello!

So you like the approach but got in a bit of a mess? Or you have decided that it's not for you? Did all that space and 5 boxes keep the swarming down? Have you Just seen Finman's comment about how a mesh floor pushes the queen and therefore brood nest to the top of the hive? This is all very interesting. Bee keeping really is nerd heaven.

Hi bjosephd; I am very inexperienced, but I have the basic principle that however experienced you are a strong disease-free colony is overwhelmingly most important. And yes, she layed at the top with a bit of encouragement from me (top box poly, top insulation and OMF). So the honey went into lower boxes, as did frame after frame of drone brood. It's not that it's not for me; far from it, just that I hope to have more of a clue with it this year. And I may run some colonies under a QE. Space did not help with swarming (a general rule, I think). I had QCs on double brood, got the fever under control and Demareed on the way to 5 boxes.

 

[user 6228]

that's good to know, Finman.
I have mesh floors, I have been keeping them with the inspection board not quite fully in, with a couple of centimetres open gap at the front end of the hive. I was wondering whether to open it up more when it gets warmer, I think I'll just keep them as they are all year and see what happens.

I'll expect then this summer to find the brood nest nearer the back of the hive, let's see.

its more complicated than you think... its certainly more complicated than I initially thought.
Definitely more complex than Finmans comments.

to get the largest effect with what you are trying to do apply, all of the following:

keep the entrance small as practical, seal up the gap where the varroa tray goes in in the side of the floor, put a super underneath the floor , add additional insulation on the top of the hive.
Whether the effect is desirable I leave up to you.

 

[Finman]

its more complicated than you think... its certainly more complicated than I initially thought.
Definitely more complex than Finmans comments.

I look the need of ventilation from number of ventilating bees.
After main yield I reduce main entrance to size of 0.8 x 15 cm. And thetr are 2 upper entrances in front wall, which diameter is 15 mm.

I just say that 8 box hives do not need more ventilation.

 

[user 6228]

I look the need of ventilation from number of ventilating bees.
After main yield I reduce main entrance to size of 0.8 x 15 cm. And thetr are 2 upper entrances in front wall, which diameter is 15 mm.

I just say that 8 box hives do not need more ventilation.

Remind me why the two holes in the front and tests you did that led to this and how common is this practice