A little help please

[oliver90owner]

‘Detritus”? “Inferred”? “Infection”?

This person obviously(?) belongs to the bb_a!

Drivel and rubbish. Bees clean out the cells before every brood cycle. Bees sre very good at keeping yheir household clean and sterile.

What exactly do you think bees do in feral colonies (ignoring that varroa, these days, may cause the demise of the colony). Think back thirty years, or more, before vartoa arrived. That’s right, they change it if and when necessary.

What actually happens is that the cell walls become thickened to the point the cells are too small for brood - honey combs (the outer ones in the hive) may not be affected as they may remain filled with stores throughout these years.

A Bailey change is generally carried out in spring while the colony is expanding (rapidly). It does need beekeeper input, to get it done and dusted in three weeks. You simply supply the new box of comb (preferably), placing the queen in that box with one or two frames of brood, and a Q/E under that top box. In three weeks all the old brood will have emerged (not ‘hatched’) and can be removed. The one or two old frames will need changing at some time, of course.

This process is best done before drone brood is too prevalent on the frame(s) moved up - they can’t get through the Q/E.

Beekeeping is easy. Don’t complicate it.

After three weeks, or so, the bottom box (and Q/E) can be removed - more beekeeper activity, I’m afraid.

Changing the odd frame, at inspection intervals, is a perfectly acceptable means of changing frames. If unable to select the oldest frames, one could add a drawing pin to the top bars each year. The ones with most drawing pins would hsve been in there for most years.

 

[Wilco]

Putting a swarm trap next to the hive you think is going to swarm is pointless, the short version is:- they will settle close by to regroup, scout bees will find a new how a long way from the hive/apiary a bait hive 50 mts away would be more useful.

They need a reason to drop in to a new location, a great inducement is old comb.

We change foundation every 2 years ish, moving frames to the outside then changing them, we put the old frames in the crown board above, I find the inspections are easier on fresh comb and the bees more active.

What do you mean by more active on the fresh comb- doing more or moving more?

 

[Amaranth]

As Patrick says inspections are way easier on fresh comb. Queen cells stand out more obviously and eggs are much easier to see in fresh comb. With each successive set of brood being reared in cells, the cell is left with a tough layer of meconium, reducing the internal diameter.

Last year I made a mistake with a Bailey comb change, being too hasty to place the queen excluder below the queen, so she was in the top box with plenty of foundation and little brood, mostly sealed, while most of the open brood was still below in the old brood chamber. The bees naturally stayed with the (?presumably stronger smelling) open brood below and the result was an overnight change in temperament to become dramatically defensive. Presumably the majority of the colony perceived themselves as queenless. On the day I braved the onslaught to remove the queen excluder, replace the queen’s frame and reopen the lower entrance, they changed back immediately to their usual docile temperament. It was a huge learning point for me.

 

[Amaranth]

My understanding is that in the wild, bees draw fresh comb because they have the space to do so, and old comb is abandoned to be demolished by wax moths. I suppose we don’t allow them empty space to build wild comb.

 

[Erichalfbee]

With each successive set of brood being reared in cells, the cell is left with a tough layer of meconium, reducing the internal diameter.

There's always this to ponder
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/smalboldcomb.htmlAnd it's not meconium....which is faeces
But pupal cocoons

 

[Amaranth]

There's always this to ponder
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/smalboldcomb.htmlAnd it's not meconium....which is faeces
But pupal cocoons

Thank you. Very interesting.

 

[Arfermo]

Thanks

Seems to me that, apart from the earlier very good advice, you need at least one other hive and the best way of doing is not what you have tried so far but to imho to split the existing one by putting a couple of brood frames and stores from it, when they have built up the brood situation in April, into the empty BB next door, shake in a load of workers, put a feeder of syrup on, seal the entrance for a day or two and move it away slightly if you can until you let them out. I don't personally think it matters much which box the Q is in after the split but it would be handy to find and mark her at the early inspections and to make sure she lays well and is worth keeping. I clip my queens too but that is not everybody's thing. So long as both have frames of NEWLY laid eggs they will do what they wish about creating a new queen in one or tother pretty sharpish. Others will be along any second to tell you I am wrong. No matter it works roughly this way for me. Bees are amazingly flexible and knowledgeable about what they want.

 

[drdrday]

As Patrick says inspections are way easier on fresh comb. Queen cells stand out more obviously and eggs are much easier to see in fresh comb.

Strangely, and it must just be me, but I find it easier to inspect old comb. The contrast between the darker brown wax and the white eggs/larvae makes them really easy to see. When it comes to spotting queen cells I also find that on older frames where the bees have already whittled away passages through the comb, particularly at the edges, this is where I'm more likely to find a queen cell every time. On new combs they can be anywhere and therefore easier for the bees to hide!

 

[Bluetractorman]

If I understand you: you put a BB of foundation on top of the old BB, then a super. I presume that the Q carried on laying in the bottom BB. I deploy the classic Bailey:
1. Close the bottom entrance to the hive
2. Find the Q and place that frame with the Q in the new BB with foundation in the rest of the frames.
3. Put a QX over the bottom box
4. Put an eke with a section removed on the QX. The removed section is the new hive entrance.
5. Place the new BB containing the Q on the eke.
6. Replace CB and roof.

The bees will quickly draw the foundation so that the Q continues to lay. After 3 weeks all the brood in the bottom BB will have hatched so that BB with the old combs can be removed and the original hive entrance restored.
7. If there is a nectar flow place the QX on top of the new BB and add a super.

Some pundits on here don't like the Bailey and prefer sequential removal of old comb as JBM says above. Combining with a Demarree is another possibility as he states. One drawback with the classic Bailey is that the drones in the bottom BB are trapped there for 3 weeks.

Bronwen White of Sheffield Beeks does a good demo of this routine that may be helpful. How to Perform a Bailey Comb Change | Sheffield Beekeepers' Association

 

[Patrick1]

Well, when I teach, I use this as a way of explaining how simple the hive is.

You would not want to rear your family in dirty or unhygienic environment

You would not store your food in a dirty kitchen or used dustbin

You would not wear your dirty gardening gloves to prepare food for your family.

So why do these things when visiting their home !

I use lots of analgias that probably the bees have taught us over the centuries all relating to the way we use our environments and the way the bees would like to use theirs

Unclean habits will not benefit your bees.

 

[Patrick1]

What do you mean by more active on the fresh comb- doing more or moving more?

We supply them with a foundation that is thicker than they would produce, the heat it and mould it into the cells they use.

If you put fresh foundation into the hive they can smell it and react in my opinion and experience by producing more brood.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But bees, left to their own devices will go year upon year on the same comb.
To switch the analogy the other way I don't throw up my dinner and seal it in a jar for later either
So maybe it's us just imposing our own values and concepts rather than letting them do their own thing
maybe applying anthropomorphic analogies to everything isn't the answer either.

 

[Patrick1]

Maybe it is one of the many reasons they swarm ! the first thing a swarm does is draw new foundation !

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maybe it is one of the many reasons they swarm ! the first thing a swarm does is draw new foundation !

I don’t think they have a choice?

 

[enrico]

Well, when I teach, I use this as a way of explaining how simple the hive is.

You would not want to rear your family in dirty or unhygienic environment

You would not store your food in a dirty kitchen or used dustbin

You would not wear your dirty gardening gloves to prepare food for your family.

So why do these things when visiting their home !

I use lots of analgias that probably the bees have taught us over the centuries all relating to the way we use our environments and the way the bees would like to use theirs

Unclean habits will not benefit your bees.

I agree that you should be clean when inspecting . But you sort of suggest that we should replace wax to keep the hive clean, although I may be misunderstanding .... You would not store food in a dirty kitchen..... But we keep our old kitchen spotless and I would suggest the bees do that too... However old the wax is they clean it before they use it!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Maybe it is one of the many reasons they swarm ! the first thing a swarm does is draw new foundation !

you saying they don't leave any bees behind in the original site?

 

[Patrick1]

Of course they do, I am just saying it could be one of many reasons to vacate a hive, just trying to show a thread of similarity with some of the issues, no studies or research just experience in my own apiaries, yours may be different !

 

[Hebeegeebee]

As has been pointed out, with a Bailey exchange, the queen needs to be put upstairs (i.e. above the excluder) with brood. If she is left by herself, the bees will potentially ignore her; they won't ignore brood.
It takes a little while for a bailey comb exchange to get going as all the brood below the excluder needs to be looked after in a double-sized box to keep warm and it's only after some of that brood emerges, will the bees do much upstairs with the queen. (Which is why it's best to wait until the colony is of a reasonable size).
As it's January, I would leave well alone until the colony is doing well. This is not the time to mess with them.

 

[Frizzaldo]

Putting a brood box full of honey next to your hive would be recommended either, will encourage robbing and wasps, was it the same person who told you to do that?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Putting a brood box full of honey next to your hive would be recommended either, will encourage robbing and wasps, was it the same person who told you to do that?

never put stuff out to 'open feed' it will only trigger robbing and could spread disease