A good time to Trickle?

[Etton]

Next week is due to be a bit warmer(10c) than the last few weeks so I am thinking it might be a good time to trickle OA on my still high drop varroa hives. Do others agree or should i wait a few more weeks?

 

[Etton]

...or should i wait for another cold snap. Do they have to be clustered when trickling, so if all wandering on the top frames its a bad time to trickle?

 

[fatshark]

Don't wait too long or they'll likely start rearing brood. If trickling I prefer the cluster isn't completely dispersed, so tend to go for somewhere between 3 and 9C. For vaporising I prefer it to be warmer, around 10+C. No real evidence that these work, other than piles of dead mites.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don't wait too long or they'll likely start rearing brood. If trickling I prefer the cluster isn't completely dispersed, so tend to go for somewhere between 3 and 9C. For vaporising I prefer it to be warmer, around 10+C. No real evidence that these work, other than piles of dead mites.

I vaped at 7 degrees yesterday. All bees either in poly or cosied wood. I checked a couple and they were either in a loose cluster or all walking about depending on size of colony.

 

[Poly Hive]

I will be trickling very shortly. Ideal weather.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

bees will start brooding in earnest again shortly - regardless of the temperature.
New research has found that early December is the best chance of getting broodless hives - that, and the latest cold snap would have me trickling (or vaping) ASAP.

 

[fatshark]

Which research JBM? I'm aware of any amount of anecdotal stuff, but not anything that's done this properly.

I usually pick the few days after the first prolonged cold snap of the season.

Mine were treated on the 6th and 7th. They were broodless (at least, those that were checked ... before the "don't open them" brigade start ;-) ).

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Wanted mine done before flying next week not trickle though .... heavens forbade

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Which research JBM?

Well, it depends whether you consider anything that LASI does as serious research
Basically, Ratnieks reported that after some ten years of ripping the brood nest apart at every opportunity rain or shine, summer or winter. early December is when they most often found the hives broodless.

 

[fatshark]

Ah OK .... I'm aware of that. Not sure it was related to anything particularly helpful to other beekeepers like ambient temperatures, day length, late forage, strain of bees etc. Retrospectively some of this could be worked out I suppose, but it's still filed under 'observational - handle with care'.

As a general point though - as you state above - earlier rather than later is probably to be preferred. Historically, treatment between Christmas and New Year recommended so often in BKAs, is probably often a bit late.

 

[Eyeman]

Ah OK .... I'm aware of that. Not sure it was related to anything particularly helpful to other beekeepers like ambient temperatures, day length, late forage, strain of bees etc. Retrospectively some of this could be worked out I suppose, but it's still filed under 'observational - handle with care'.

As a general point though - as you state above - earlier rather than later is probably to be preferred. Historically, treatment between Christmas and New Year recommended so often in BKAs, is probably often a bit late.

Heard an interesting argument that the winter brood break may be due to a combination of environmental factors and the queens innate circadian rhythm.
Queen stops or reduces laying in autumn as a result of reduced pollen input and low external temperatures. This then sets her clock ticking & she resumes laying again when her internal bell goes off.

 

[Finman]

Heard an interesting argument that the winter brood break may be due to a combination of environmental factors and the queens innate circadian rhythm.
Queen stops or reduces laying in autumn as a result of reduced pollen input and low external temperatures. This then sets her clock ticking & she resumes laying again when her internal bell goes off.

IT is not queen's business. Queen often lay, but bees do no feed larvae.

First sign of autumn is that bees do not rear drones and they do not draw drone combs. And colonies stop swarming.

Winter brood break is explained by researchers. No need to invent it by hobby beekeepers.

Question is not about queen's time machine.

.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Heard an interesting argument that the winter brood break may be due to a combination of environmental factors and the queens innate circadian rhythm.
Queen stops or reduces laying in autumn as a result of reduced pollen input and low external temperatures. This then sets her clock ticking & she resumes laying again when her internal bell goes off.

Hmmm - not at all convinced with that, my queens often stop laying completely come end of August - still loads of pollen and nectar around us at that time, then start back up again before slacking off again before the end of the year

 

[Etton]

Wanted mine done before flying next week not trickle though .... heavens forbade

I feel little choice but to trickle on my two difficult hives with still large varroa drops despite repeated vaping. As I have mentioned a few times before I think it may be because both hives nadired and vape may not be reaching sufficiently high to the upper ( brood) box.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Let us know what you find when you open up....where were the clusters

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hmmm - not at all convinced with that, my queens often stop laying completely come end of August - still loads of pollen and nectar around us at that time, then start back up again before slacking off again before the end of the year

agree, also witnessed by the number of calls i get from beginners in September & October "i have lost my queen, i have no brood, help , My first question is why were you going into the brood in october

 

[Erichalfbee]

I feel little choice but to trickle on my two difficult hives with still large varroa drops despite repeated vaping. As I have mentioned a few times before I think it may be because both hives nadired and vape may not be reaching sufficiently high to the upper ( brood) box.

I don’t think a nadired shallow matters. When I used a varrox enough oxalic permeated upwards. If you are in doubt you can always lift one corner of the crownboard up a few mm and you will see vapour wisp up. Another clue that it’s working is the drop. If large numbers of mites are dropping it’s because the colony has large numbers and because the oxalic is reaching them not because it’s not.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don’t think a nadired shallow matters. When I used a varrox enough oxalic permeated upwards. If you are in doubt you can always lift one corner of the crownboard up a few mm and you will see vapour wisp up. Another clue that it’s working is the drop. If large numbers of mites are dropping it’s because the colony has large numbers and because the oxalic is reaching them not because it’s not.

I often have quite a few nadired hives and vaping has knocked back the mites as well as in the others

 

[drex]

No problem with vaping running double brood. Still gets right to the top. Anyway, once the vapour has re solidified the bees will still, inadvertently, distribute it .

 

[Parsonage Bees]

bees will start brooding in earnest again shortly - regardless of the temperature.

Drat! I've been looking back at the temperature when the brood emerging today would have been laid and reasoning that the temperature 3 weeks ago dictates whether the queen is laying.

I've checked the floor tray for the last couple of weeks (7 and 10 varroa /day) and there has been brood emerging (when 3 weeks before the temperature was maximum 13-15degC).

I'm going to have to trickle before the end of next week anyway. ?

. . . . Ben