2nd swarm capture video done

[RichardK]

If you're interested in seeing a swarm filing into a bait hive then here's what happened with our second catch last month. Unlike the first one, this swarm was so easy. They turned up with a plan and just got on with it. Still can't work out how to embed a video...so just a link again....

2nd swarm video

Someone who has watched the video has just pointed out to me that you can see the queen at 4:39 entering from bottom left edge of wood shelf and entering the hive at 4:43. Amazing. I'd assumed she's already be in the hive as the colony was happily entering.

 

[Do224]

Really enjoyed that Richard, thanks. Truly one of nature’s wonders.

Were your swarms prime or castes?

 

[RichardK]

I always think of a prime swarm as being big, but mine weren't. But then as I understand it a cast swarm tends to have a virgin queen but mine were laying within days with the first brood emerging c. 25 days after the swarm arrived.

So I don't really know the answer to your question Dave - I suppose either a small prime, or a cast with a mated queen?

 

[Do224]

I always think of a prime swarm as being big, but mine weren't. But then as I understand it a cast swarm tends to have a virgin queen buy mine were laying within days with the first brood emerging c. 25 days after the swarm arrived.

So I don't really know the answer to your question Dave - I suppose either a small prime, or a cast with a mated queen?

My understanding is that if a swarm has a mated queen it’s always ‘prime’. If it has a virgin it’s always ‘caste’. Maybe someone can confirm?

So presumably a prime swarm has a few weeks head start at building up over a caste (or at least the period of time it takes a virgin to mate and begin to lay)

 

[Erichalfbee]

My understanding is that if a swarm has a mated queen it’s always ‘prime’. If it has a virgin it’s always ‘caste’. Maybe someone can confirm?

So presumably a prime swarm has a few weeks head start at building up over a caste (or at least the period of time it takes a virgin to mate and begin to lay)

A Prime is the first swarm to leave the hive. If the queen is clipped and lost in the first attempt the bees return to the hive and will swarm with the first virgin so in this case the Prime will be headed by an unmated queen.

 

[Do224]

A Prime is the first swarm to leave the hive. If the queen is clipped and lost in the first attempt the bees return to the hive and will swarm with the first virgin so in this case the Prime will be headed by an unmated queen.

If that happened and there was only one virgin would they still swarm and leave the original colony queenless?

 

[drex]

They might, but the next virgin to emerge would head the colony, or swarm, and then the next one, and the next one etc. No telling how many swarms a colony might send out, if it has the resources

 

[RichardK]

My understanding is that if a swarm has a mated queen it’s always ‘prime’. If it has a virgin it’s always ‘caste’. Maybe someone can confirm?

So presumably a prime swarm has a few weeks head start at building up over a caste (or at least the period of time it takes a virgin to mate and begin to lay)

In which case mine must have been prime swarms. Will be interesting to hear what yours turns out to be. Are you doing an inspection this weekend?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If that happened and there was only one virgin would they still swarm and leave the original colony queenless?

If there was only one new queen then no. This is why you leave only one cell in a split and drex’s answer why you don’t leave more.

 

[Erichalfbee]

To further complicate matters rarely swarm cells have been produced and the original queen has remained after the first swarm has left

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My understanding is that if a swarm has a mated queen it’s always ‘prime’. If it has a virgin it’s always ‘caste’.

Both wrong.
A Prime swarm (from the Latin Primus - first) is the first swarm that successfully leaves the hive. Yes, in most cases it has a mated queen but can be headed by a virgin. For example a colony with a clipped queen swarms, queen crashes and burns, gets lost in the undergrowth, so the swarm returns to the hive, the bees then wait for the first virgin to emerge and successfully swarm with her. Also, it could be that the queen dies suddenly, loads of Emergency QC's are made and, again, when the first virgin emerges, they decide to swarm.
a CAST swarm is the second swarm to emerge from the same colony (from the same batch of QC's) and yes, will be headed by a virgin unless by some bizzare circumstance there were two mated queens in the colony (I've had three) and they still swarm.
The next swarm to emerge is called a Colt
The one after that is called a Filly
And a swarm from a colony which was a swarm caught earlier in the same season is called a Maiden

 

[Do224]

In which case mine must have been prime swarms. Will be interesting to hear what yours turns out to be. Are you doing an inspection this weekend?

Planning to have a quick look on Monday, just to check for eggs and to see what they’ve built with the two litres of syrup they’ve had

 

[Do224]

Both wrong.
A Prime swarm (from the Latin Primus - first) is the first swarm that successfully leaves the hive. Yes, in most cases it has a mated queen but can be headed by a virgin. For example a colony with a clipped queen swarms, queen crashes and burns, gets lost in the undergrowth, so the swarm returns to the hive, the bees then wait for the first virgin to emerge and successfully swarm with her. Also, it could be that the queen dies suddenly, loads of Emergency QC's are made and, again, when the first virgin emerges, they decide to swarm.
a CAST swarm is the second swarm to emerge from the same colony (from the same batch of QC's) and yes, will be headed by a virgin unless by some bizzare circumstance there were two mated queens in the colony (I've had three) and they still swarm.
The next swarm to emerge is called a Colt
The one after that is called a Filly
And a swarm from a colony which was a swarm caught earlier in the same season is called a Maiden

Are maiden swarms common? Can I expect my swarm caught on Sunday to consider swarming before the season is out?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Are maiden swarms common? Can I expect my swarm caught on Sunday to consider swarming before the season is out?

not common, but not unknown. An early swarm can quickly build up during the main flow and run out of space.

 

[RichardK]

Planning to have a quick look on Monday, just to check for eggs and to see what they’ve built with the two litres of syrup they’ve had

Do you know if they've gone through all the syrup as yet?

 

[Do224]

Do you know if they've gone through all the syrup as yet?

They went through the first litre pretty much overnight and I’m assuming they’ve used the second litre as quickly (I gave it them on Wed evening). Don’t want to give them anymore until I’ve established they’re not storing it

 

[user 819]

They went through the first litre pretty much overnight and I’m assuming they’ve used the second litre as quickly (I gave it them on Wed evening). Don’t want to give them anymore until I’ve established they’re not storing it

Don't wait for the weather get in there and have a look, if need be get some one to go with you to hold the parasol or large brolly in the rain.
One can use a cast base to plonk a parasol in.

 

[TomH]

Are maiden swarms common? Can I expect my swarm caught on Sunday to consider swarming before the season is out?

I had one this year. Collected a swarm at the end of April and they swarmed again out of my hive beginning of June, as I was overly complacent. Lesson learnt!

 

[RichardK]

I had one this year. Collected a swarm at the end of April and they swarmed again out of my hive beginning of June, as I was overly complacent. Lesson learnt!

Had they drawn out all the frames by the time they swarmed / had you added a super? Or are you referring to something else when you say 'overly complacent'?

 

[Do224]

Don't wait for the weather get in there and have a look, if need be get some one to go with you to hold the parasol or large brolly in the rain.
One can use a cast base to plonk a parasol in.

What’s the rush? I’ve been advised by others on here to leave them well alone for a week and even then just have a sneak peak for eggs...