1st year not going very well...

[Pmatthews]

Hi,

This is my first year and things are going quite according to plan...

I checked my hive on Saturday and found some queen cells together with the queen so did an artificial swarm (moved the queen into a new hive with foundation and put into the position of the old hive with thee super on top). I may have made two errors - firstly, I moved two frames across with the queen as she was on one of the outer frames without much brood and secondly I didn't put a queen excluder under the brood box). Anyway, I checked this evening what was going on and she has swarmed and they have build some more queen cells in the new brood box.

I am left with two depleted hives - the super over the new hive is quite full and I have just given the original hive a bit of sugar syrup as it has been pouring with rain for two days.

My question is what should I do now? I'm worried that the new hive is going to be too depleted of bees so should I reunite this hive with the original one?

Any advice much appreciated...

 

[Poly Hive]

Probably not conventional but I would go with your situation and aim to successfully winter two.

Probably means you may not get honey this season but......... your decision, what is more important to you? Honey this year in a dribble or a double flood next season?

PH

 

[mjt68]

Hi,

This is my first year and things are going quite according to plan...

I checked my hive on Saturday and found some queen cells together with the queen so did an artificial swarm (moved the queen into a new hive with foundation and put into the position of the old hive with thee super on top). I may have made two errors - firstly, I moved two frames across with the queen as she was on one of the outer frames without much brood and secondly I didn't put a queen excluder under the brood box). Anyway, I checked this evening what was going on and she has swarmed and they have build some more queen cells in the new brood box.

I am left with two depleted hives - the super over the new hive is quite full and I have just given the original hive a bit of sugar syrup as it has been pouring with rain for two days.

My question is what should I do now? I'm worried that the new hive is going to be too depleted of bees so should I reunite this hive with the original one?

Any advice much appreciated...

Seems you missed a QC on the frames you moved. Never mind, chalk it up to experience.

How much brood in original hive? What type of hive? What kit do you have to hand? Any nucs? Do you want one hive or two? There's quite a bit you could do, depending on your aims.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's always worth going into both hives three days or so after the A/S to check for more QC's - almost definitely be a load of emergency QC's in the side on the new site with only nurse bees and one (Chosen) QC in, but more often than not they will have carried on in the hive with the queen in - remember it's the flying bees left with her that are the swarm instigators.Then check again after the seventh day - especially in the Q- side.
I would keep them as they are - only difference now is you will be waiting for two queens to emerge and mate not one.
Remember to keep checking for QC's

 

[Pmatthews]

Thanks for your replies - it appears I have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

I'd thought I had had a a pretty thorough look for queen cells on Saturday so am surprised to have missed 4. Could these be emergency queen cells that have been built since then??

I have two WBC hives and have the original nuc box that the bees came in last year. I haven't check the brood on the original hive as I thought I was meant to be letting them get on with things. There was a decent amount of brood on there on Saturday (I would say 6 frames/ 10) of which I have moved 1 together with the second which didn't contain much brood. I have to admit to being a little flustered on Saturday so can't say for sure but everything was looking pretty healthy and they had done a good job of filling the supers.

I don't have any drawn out brood frames other than the original 10.

For choice I would like to get a second hive going and forfeit any honey this year as I think that then gives me options in the future.

Any help is gratefully received.

Ps I am not going to be at home tomorrow and will be back at 7.00 on Friday and around all weekend...

 

[Pmatthews]

A quick follow-up...when I check for queen cells, should I then reduce the queen cells down to 1 in both colonies if they have built more?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'd thought I had had a a pretty thorough look for queen cells on Saturday so am surprised to have missed 4. Could these be emergency queen cells that have been built since then??

They were obviously still in swarming mode so carried on making preparations as soon as you closed back up.
As an aside, you needn't have worried about giving them a frame full of brood, some beekeepers don't leave any - just picking the queen up and dropping her in a box full of foundation. The rationale of leaving a little brood in there is to discourage them from absconding, but I think if they want to go they'll b*gger off regardless.
Moving the frame you find the queen on over (after removing any QC's) jst makes it easier than handling the queen.

I haven't check the brood on the original hive as I thought I was meant to be letting them get on with things. .

No real harm (yet) hopefully you've made note of where your chosen Queen cell is when you did the A/S. Get back in there at the first opportunity and take the rest down to avoid any virgins swarming. Although, Wally Shaw just leaves the lot in and believes the bees will sort themselves out, keeping the best QC as the urge to swarm has gone. To be honest, I have done that in the past - with mixed results

 

[Pmatthews]

Thanks for your help - i read different opinions about the number of queen cells to leave in the original hive so left a couple in case there was a problem with one of them. Looks like I need to go in on Friday and reduce both again...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks for your help - i read different opinions about the number of queen cells to leave in the original hive so left a couple in case there was a problem with one of them. Looks like I need to go in on Friday and reduce both again...

up to you, I leave only one if I have an open one to check with a nice larvae inside. If they are all sealed I might only leave one or maybe two .

 

[Pmatthews]

Thanks - fingers crossed. I'm looking forward to trying to find two unmarked queens...

 

[mjt68]

Thanks for your replies - it appears I have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

I'd thought I had had a a pretty thorough look for queen cells on Saturday so am surprised to have missed 4. Could these be emergency queen cells that have been built since then??

I have two WBC hives and have the original nuc box that the bees came in last year. I haven't check the brood on the original hive as I thought I was meant to be letting them get on with things. There was a decent amount of brood on there on Saturday (I would say 6 frames/ 10) of which I have moved 1 together with the second which didn't contain much brood. I have to admit to being a little flustered on Saturday so can't say for sure but everything was looking pretty healthy and they had done a good job of filling the supers.

I don't have any drawn out brood frames other than the original 10.

For choice I would like to get a second hive going and forfeit any honey this year as I think that then gives me options in the future.

Any help is gratefully received.

Ps I am not going to be at home tomorrow and will be back at 7.00 on Friday and around all weekend...

If you're going for two hives, priority is to make sure both parts of split are viable and able to grow quickly. Read up on strengthening/balancing colonies - better than learning on here (wonderful as it is) as it will work better if you've understood the theory and worked it out for yourself. The part filled super can be used as fuel to carry this off and I'd consider moving the two frame part of the split to a nuc, or evening up both sides to 5 frames each.