1st inspection, 95% bees gone handful left

[Biddly]

Having looked at my hive records last night, i started the Apiguard treatment on 19th August 2011. There was a large mite drop in the first few days and reduced mite drop over the next two weeks and a steep decline to virtually nothing by the end of the treatment in September.

I did not treat with OA in the winter.

 

[itma]

Having looked at my hive records last night... There was a large mite drop in the first few days and reduced mite drop over the next two weeks and a steep decline to virtually nothing by the end of the treatment in September. ...

Excellent that you are keeping good records, but what (natural-mortality) drops did you record AFTER the end of the Apiguard treatment?

 

[Finman]

Those "4 huge hives" what else was similar/common between them?

they all changed the queen and they had 2-3 weeks brood break before winter bees rearing.

 

[BBG]

Big hive = big Varroa problem - needs careful monitoring.

Lost our biggest too!

 

[Chris Luck]

Big hive = big Varroa problem - needs careful monitoring.

Surely it's all relative and should be expressed in terms of mites per head of population? If I've missed something here please explain what that is?

Chris

 

[Finman]

.
We are not researhers.

 

[itma]

Surely it's all relative and should be expressed in terms of mites per head of population? If I've missed something here please explain what that is?

Chris

Bigger colonies can keep warm a higher proportion of brood *see below
And more brood for longer means a greater potential for a varroa population explosion.


* Cluster approx spherical.
Surface area (thus heat loss) increases proportional to radius squared.
Volume (thus heat generating potential and the number of brood cells enclosed) increases proportional to the cube of the radius of the sphere.
So a smaller colony will lose proportionately (per bee) more heat, and be able to support proportionately less brood.

 

[drstitson]

it's the simple fact that bigger, better yielding colonies will have had, by definition, more brood for longer.

much damage will already have been done before summer apiguard - so winter bees will be virus ridden.

then for example - 5000 mites in august; suboptimal 90% knock down as bees on two brood boxes; gives you 500 mites left.

say 9-10 weeks autumn brood rearing = conservative 3 replication cycles = 4000 mites in november = colony doomed.

 

[Finman]

it's the simple fact that bigger, better yielding colonies will have had, by definition, more brood for longer.

much damage will already have been done before summer apiguard - so winter bees will be virus ridden.

then for example - 5000 mites in august; suboptimal 90% knock down as bees on two brood boxes; gives you 500 mites left.

say 9-10 weeks autumn brood rearing = conservative 3 replication cycles = 4000 mites in november = colony doomed.

70% knock down is more probable as 90%.
90 is really good in there hive which has brood.

 

[drstitson]

"90 is really good in there hive which has brood"

we're talking a full course covering a full brood cycle at least.

but if you insist:

30% of 5000 = 1500
3 further doublings = 4500 (even more shafted).

 

[richardbees]

it's the simple fact that bigger, better yielding colonies will have had, by definition, more brood for longer.

I treated both my hives with OA on Dec 30th. Last Autumn's biggest (in fact it was huge) colony has already got a big mite population, the other has none. I think it was because they had a big enough cluster to keep a big patch of sealed brood going for the mites to shelter in....

 

[Chris Luck]

Well, that's the theory is it? In the real world chez moi this doesn't happen and as we know, I don't use any treatments. Non the less my "larger" more robust colonies come through winter in the same way as my smaller colonies - happy, (well, alive anyway, not sure bees have emotions).

....however, if people believe this to be the case perhaps they should use a bee that goes into autumn and winter with a smaller colony size?

Chris

 

[richardbees]

....merely my personal observation, mon ami

 

[Chris Luck]

Not you in particular Richard, in fact your post wasn't showing when I posted.

Observation is one thing, but waffle is another and there is no shortage of that.

Chris

 

[drstitson]

Chris - you're obviously in a special situation where you are (or actively manage well whilst not treating).

Over the alps the other big dadant fans (hence big colonies), the italians, suffered massive autumn/winter losses (we're talking upto 100%). Obviously AM ligustica has it's own specific issues re amount of brood rearing during the season.

It's a fact that the UK RBIs are repeatedly finding "best" colonies being lost.

 

[Chris Luck]

It's a fact that the UK RBIs are repeatedly finding "best" colonies being lost.

Perhaps it would be interesting to know what type of bees they are. Here it is generally reckoned that the "black bees" or at least those with predominately native traits are the best survivors if with a tendency to be a bit aggressive. Italians and Buckfast may be docile but may not be the most suited.

Chris

 

[stehaggan]

First hive inspection today

Today I did my first hive inspection of the year. I have noticed one hive with little activity and one with lots of activity over the past few weeks.

On inspection, one of our hives only has a hand full of bees in it :-( both hives were treated with api strips and OA when recommended and have been fed over the winter.

After reviewing my inspection logs - the hive which has suffered was always the strongest hive but they tended to be very feisty. On my last inspection however it was noted that the queen was not seen (always was in other cases) and also very little brood whereas previously it was a lot higher.

Upon inspection today, I found an open queen cup at the bottom of one of the frames so i must have missed it on my last inspection and feel the hive may have done a late swarm and the colony has been too weak to survive :-(

My other hive seems to be doing really well - even though that was always the weaker hive. I have never been able to find the queen in this hive though (It has lots of brood and eggs currently).

My question is now how to deal with the hive which has severely depleted? Any recommendations other than buy another nuc?

As you may have guessed, last year was my first year of beekeeping.

Many thanks

 

[drstitson]

"Perhaps it would be interesting to know what type of bees they are. Here it is generally reckoned that the "black bees" or at least those with predominately native traits are the best survivors if with a tendency to be a bit aggressive. Italians and Buckfast may be docile but may not be the most suited."

sure - given that our RBI covers the SE/London there are likely few true "black bees" in the cohort!