1 or 2 brood boxes?

[Tremyfro]

Been doing a bit of forward thinking......I see on a number of utube beekeeping vids that the bees have 2 brood boxes or even sometimes 3. I have been told that, in the UK, usually bees only require 1 brood box. I have 2 hives....Number 1...MB bee box(national)and Number 2...P jumbo hive. I am thinking that the Hive 1 will be fine as it has a 6 frame nuc in it. Now spread over 8 frames and beginning to pull out more. It has a super which is almost entirely pulled out and filled with nectar.
Hive 2 has a full colony....will this hive eventually need 2 brood boxes? When I last looked, there were 2, almost 3 frames of capped brood and loads of eggs and larvae and lots of bees. No queen cells. Queen present. Super is now drawn over 6 to 7 frames. They are on the last few frames. High volume of bees in/out...in both hives.
I have frames plus supers ready to add as necessary.
Looking ahead in regard to equipment required for expanding hives/new hives. Would a full colony benefit from more brood space? Given that they are in a jumbo? If so, would you wait until after present flow is over? Would it knock them back? Or do I just add further supers as required?

 

[Finman]

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Use 2 brood and look what bees do.

 

[Dishmop]

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Use 2 brood and look what bees do.

Certainly not what you want them to do..

 

[Tremyfro]

Can that mean that the bees will move up into 2nd brood box....as I would expect but vacate lower brood box......or expand into 2nd brood box...using both?

 

[Davelin]

Paynes Jumbo, 14 x 12 presumably.

I have never had to use more than one brood box with this size.

An ordinary National Brood box, or deep, may not be big enough and you may need to double brood.

You will probably find life easier if you stick to one size of brood box, your choice as to which.

 

[drex]

Who knows? I think that is what Finman is trying to say.
Depends on how strong the colony actually is ( in my first year they all looked huge), how good a layer the queen is, type of bee, weather, forage etc. You say you have 2-3 frames of capped brood only, so my guess is the colony is still quite small.
Queens rate of lay will start decreasing naturally round about now anyway.
I would tend to just add more supers - as needed - and see what happens.

 

[Swarm]

If they need a second brood chamber, then add one but only when they really need one. Your paynes jumbo is 14x12 so I doubt it will need another.
Good luck to you if you go double 14x12 ...
Your MB hive has ten frames, so quite conceivable it may need another but again, don't add it too soon.
Be aware also that a very large double brood colony can be quite daunting for a beginner.

 

[beebopalula]

Depends on forage and quality of bees etc. I have / have had double brood 14x12 and JLS hives, but forage is mostly too poor in my area. My bees have to work hard for nectar.

 

[oliver90owner]

Think time of season might be an appropriate suggestion.

 

[Tremyfro]

I am not thinking, that the full colony in Hive 2 need another brood box at the moment. There was brood on both sides of 8 frames.....in various stages. Loads of eggs. 2, almost 3 frames had sealed brood on both sides. The end frames were filled with capped and uncapped honey. Yes I am adding supers as necessary. Just thinking that as there is a QE above the brood box.....the bees don't have a lot of choice in the size of their brood...other than to move the honey.
I was thinking forward, in the future, next year even, of the possibility of needing a second brood box for this hive. Is it done? Or does everyone do a split/AS etc....at that stage? And stay at one brood box.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Always seem to cope with one brood box - just takes a bit of lateral thinking when hey get beyond eight frames

 

[Finman]

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Basic question is, to where you put excluder or do you put it at all. Or you may add excluder in late summer.

Many beekeepers think that excluder is somehow important in beekeeping, but it is not. It hinders to learn, what the bees actually tend to do in the hive. And the beekeeper should follow bees natural tendencies in nursing.

 

[Finman]

Always seem to cope with one brood box - just takes a bit of lateral thinking when hey get beyond eight frames

I need queens which are able to lay at least 15 langstroth frames. But 20 is better. And I use 3 langstroth boxes for brood.

Hive needs pollen stores too. In my system the lowest box is pollen store and the place too, where the most foragers sleep at night. Towards autumn I push the queen to lay onto pollen frames and in lowest box the hive rears winter bees.

If bees have not enough space for pollen in brood box, they store it into honey combs.

 

[Tremyfro]

At the moment, I have the QE above the brood box. They are filling the first super ...6 frames full of nectar and pulling out all the other frames.
In the brood box, today,
Queen present,
1 and a half, full, frames of honey stores,
pollen stores and honey with the brood,
9 and a half of BIAS.
A few play cup...not charged.
There were cells ready for eggs and eggs laid in lots of other cells.
If you were to give a colony more room for the brood nest to expand ....will that help them and keep them content. Would you do this in the spring...when they are rapidly expanding. Lots of advice.....says 'when they need it' but that doesn't tell us much...how do we know they need it? If they lived in a great big old tree. The space could be huge right from the beginning. So why do we restrict the size of the brood nest? I know warmth is a factor. I have poly hives...so not too much of a problem. It is interesting trying to work out how the bees want to live.

 

[Swarm]

In my reply earlier, I had the impression this was a future decision. Plenty and varied approaches during spring build up, have a read of Wally Shaw's presentation on Bridgend beekeepers site, it's very interesting reading and food for thought.
As for this year and already hinted at by o90 is the time of season and your queens will probably have reached their peak laying.
I'd suggest adding only supers for this year but it may be a good idea to remove any capped honey frames in the brood chamber and offer the queen some comb to lay if you have some.

There is a fine line when it comes to 'when they need it', a lot of people would say when the bees have eight frames of brood but I agree with Chris B and some consideration has to be given to the colony size, the number of adult bees also. A super to home these bees is worth considering.

 

[Finman]

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The hive is very small, only 2 boxes. It sounds that bees use brood box for honey store because super is quite full and used for rippen honey.

It does not harm, if you use another brood box and you get new brood frames.
Those brood frames where is much honey, you may lift over excluder. Bees fill them more and then extract

Another option is that you add second super between brood and honey super.

Main thing is that you add room that the colony does not get swarming fever.

1 or 2 brood boxes is not life or dead issue.

It depends too, how dark are your brood combs in your boath hives or do you need new combs

 

[Tremyfro]

Thx swarm! very helpful. Yes you are right....I was thinking...in the future. So if I remove the full frame and a half of capped honey and give a new frame...that is equal to expanding brood nest space. I only have foundation...but I guess if they want the space for her to lay....they will pull it out....right? Or if I can remove the honey...can I give the empty frames back to them? A way of expanding but without changing the dynamics too much.

 

[Finman]

Thx swarm! very helpful. Yes you are right....I was thinking...in the future. So if I remove the full frame and a half of capped honey and give a new frame...that is equal to expanding brood nest space. I only have foundation...but I guess if they want the space for her to lay....they will pull it out....right? Or if I can remove the honey...can I give the empty frames back to them? A way of expanding but without changing the dynamics too much.

Nobody should do such tricks...what do you do with 2 frame? You cannot exract them because you get only extractor dirty. In store honey will be crystallized.

That is not beekeeping....

 

[Finman]

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And 2 frames...if flow is good, bees fill them with nectar in one or two days...what then

 

[Tremyfro]

Here is what I have done.......added second super with QE above and (honey filled but not yet capped) super above that. So any extra space required for brood is there or they can fill with nectar.....bees choice. No matter what ....there is more space for bees in hive.