dealing with a queenless double brood hive

citrus · Jul 4, 2019

have a double brood hive that I used a demarree on some 6 weeks back.

Took a qc out the top and created a two nuc's that are doing well as insurance.

Sadly ... the bottom half of the demarree - looks like the queen failed so I tried a later QC's down in the bottom (on 12th june) to emerge but now ~20 days or so I checked the hive yesterday and nothing happening.-> No eggs/brood etc.

Still lots of bees busy working away but they are now filling the top brood box with honey instead of the super.

last night I put one frame of egg/bias from one of the nuc's into the bottom brood box to see if they can have another go creating a qc

but overnight I was thinking ... would I be better to merge one of the nuc's with this big hive ?

beeno · Jul 4, 2019

citrus said:
have a double brood hive that I used a demarree on some 6 weeks back.

Took a qc out the top and created a two nuc's that are doing well as insurance.

Sadly ... the bottom half of the demarree - looks like the queen failed so I tried a later QC's down in the bottom (on 12th june) to emerge but now ~20 days or so I checked the hive yesterday and nothing happening.-> No eggs/brood etc.

Still lots of bees busy working away but they are now filling the top brood box with honey instead of the super.

last night I put one frame of egg/bias from one of the nuc's into the bottom brood box to see if they can have another go creating a qc

but overnight I was thinking ... would I be better to merge one of the nuc's with this big hive ?

That is 13 days from emergence - still early days. However, it would have been useful if you had confirmed at the time whether it looked like she exited the QC?

Repwoc · Jul 4, 2019

If they build Q cells on your test frame, it's likely that there is no Q present. In that case I would unite with your insurance nuc - what else is insurance for?

enrico · Jul 4, 2019

Patience!
E

Repwoc · Jul 4, 2019

enrico said:
Patience!
E

He's already put in the test frame - do you think they will build Q cells with a resident Q?

eltalia · Jul 4, 2019

Repwoc said:
He's already put in the test frame - do you think they will build Q cells with a resident Q?

Read what the chap(?) posted;
"last night I put one frame of egg/bias from one of the nuc's "

... inside of 24hrs - given posting date/time - you expect a
definitive outcome??

I woudn't, two days at least to even see coned cups.

Bill

GuyNir · Jul 4, 2019

Merge or let them create a Q (if Q-), is up to you and your plans re no. of colonies.

Agree with Bill above, I’d give the test frame another day at least to see if they start QC’s.

Repwoc · Jul 4, 2019

GuyNir said:
Agree with Bill above, I’d give the test frame another day at least to see if they start QC’s.

Oh I see - yes, I didn't say "if there are Q cells ..." I said "If they build Q cells on your test frame ...". Obviously, allow time for that to happen, or not.

I thought the "patience" comment was about adding the test frame, which was already done.

citrus · Jul 5, 2019

so just to confirm my plans

so will give them 4-5 days and if qc's are there then it confirms q-

would then remove all but the biggest/longest/least wonky qc (delete as appropriate) leaving them one qc to nurture .. and leave them another 20 days or so

citrus · Jul 11, 2019

citrus said:
so just to confirm my plans

so will give them 4-5 days and if qc's are there then it confirms q-

would then remove all but the biggest/longest/least wonky qc (delete as appropriate) leaving them one qc to nurture .. and leave them another 20 days or so

so just to keep this thread alive ... so checked on 9th July and no qc's

Eric mentioned that I should probably give the hive a few more weeks to see if that emergent queen is just waiting to get going ....so will try another test frame in a week or two

beeno · Jul 11, 2019

citrus said:
so just to keep this thread alive ... so checked on 9th July and no qc's

Eric mentioned that I should probably give the hive a few more weeks to see if that emergent queen is just waiting to get going ....so will try another test frame in a week or two

Maybe it is a stupid question, but have you checked for eggs!

Poly Hive · Jul 11, 2019

My experience is that a virgin can take up to 4 to 5 weeks to mate successfully.

To a good eye a Q- colony will start flooding the selected cells on the test frame with royal jelly overnight and can be accurately assessed the following day.

PH

citrus · Jul 11, 2019

Poly Hive said:
My experience is that a virgin can take up to 4 to 5 weeks to mate successfully.

To a good eye a Q- colony will start flooding the selected cells on the test frame with royal jelly overnight and can be accurately assessed the following day.

PH

working on my good eye sadly ! - did have a good look for eggs and it was all pollen and nectar

will apply some patience and try another test frame with fresh eggs in a few weeks IF there is STILL no eggs found in 8-10 days or so

eltalia · Jul 11, 2019

citrus said:
so just to keep this thread alive ... so checked on 9th July and no qc's

OK... so a queen is present, somewhere.
That's your next job, find her or find her eggs.

Eric mentioned that I should probably give the hive a few more weeks to see if that emergent queen is just waiting to get going ....so will try another test frame in a week or two

Nope... getting waaay too long broodless, effectively.
You'll need to consider other alternatives , buuuuut as above, confirm
a queen or her eggs are present. And before say weekend after next.

Bill

Erichalfbee · Jul 11, 2019

Poly Hive said:
My experience is that a virgin can take up to 4 to 5 weeks to mate successfully.

PH

Yep
But not in Australia

eltalia · Jul 11, 2019

Erichalfbee said:
Poly Hive threw in a spanner with;
My experience is that a virgin can take up to 4 to 5 weeks to mate successfully.

Click to expand...

Yep
But not in Australia

Point is such is n0t normal... would you have this poster only
operate around exceptions/rarities simply as such nonsense
suits another agenda not of the 0Ps making?

Another 7 to 8 days a queen should be laying in your current
weather/season cycle.

Bill

Erichalfbee · Jul 11, 2019

eltalia said:
Point is such is n0t normal... would you have this poster only
operate around exceptions/rarities simply as such nonsense
suits another agenda not of the 0Ps making?

Another 7 to 8 days a queen should be laying in your current
weather/season cycle.

Bill

Of course it’s not normal
That’s why he’s asking here
But to give upon a colony because they are not normal is being a tad impatient
UK is a small country but still manages to have all sorts of weather. Plenty of people are reporting Queen failures because the weather in some parts was rubbish after colonies made early swarm preps in response to an early spring

eltalia · Jul 11, 2019

Erichalfbee said:
Of course it’s not normal
That’s why he’s asking here
But to give upon a colony because they are not normal is being a tad impatient
UK is a small country but still manages to have all sorts of weather. Plenty of people are reporting Queen failures because the weather in some parts was rubbish after colonies made early swarm preps in response to an early spring

Three things are emerging as your "go to" in handing out your
slant on a given scenario, to anyone;
*You assume a l0t from other's input.
*You put words to the 0P's report to suit your 'deduction'.
*You can and do invent other inputs to support an "IF" put in
your assumptive guidance.
Fine...
... just know those that do notice this are likely trying to help
you also in their address to the 0P.

@citrus is n0t reporting any abnormality other than what s/he
expects as set/emerge/lay timing. This is a new player thing, n0t
some deviation from the mean band of normal.
"Sill lots of bees busy working away but they are now filling
the top brood box with honey instead of...."

Nobody is "giving up" on this colony.
Another week will simply define the line in the sand. Is it proactive
for the beekeep to hang about waiting for your abnormalacy
to play out? What then..?... you rescue the colony via text?

Have some 'fun' with this, hey... currently we burn the midnight oil
watching the Tour, lurvly weather over the channel - ideal
mating skies.
/grinz/

Bill

TryingToLetThemBee · Jul 11, 2019

A big colony takes longer to re-Q but this does seem a bit slow. In the warm weather I have had one TINY mating nuc (a lot of the bees had drifted: we are talking bees to fill a fraction of a seam so << Apidea) go from QC to LQ in definitely 4 days and it might have been 2. That is an extreme though, and the Q is still tiny so supersedure time if they make it no doubt. That's why big colonies take longer; they can afford the investment of time to get her good and full.

Erichalfbee · Jul 11, 2019

eltalia said:
Three things are emerging as your "go to" in handing out your
slant on a given scenario, to anyone;
*You assume a l0t from other's input.
*You put words to the 0P's report to suit your 'deduction'.
*You can and do invent other inputs to support an "IF" put in
your assumptive guidance.
Fine...
... just know those that do notice this are likely trying to help
you also in their address to the 0P.

@citrus is n0t reporting any abnormality other than what s/he
expects as set/emerge/lay timing. This is a new player thing, n0t
some deviation from the mean band of normal.
"Sill lots of bees busy working away but they are now filling
the top brood box with honey instead of...."

Nobody is "giving up" on this colony.
Another week will simply define the line in the sand. Is it proactive
for the beekeep to hang about waiting for your abnormalacy
to play out? What then..?... you rescue the colony via text?

Have some 'fun' with this, hey... currently we burn the midnight oil
watching the Tour, lurvly weather over the channel - ideal
mating skies.
/grinz/

Bill

Not the same without Froomey

dealing with a queenless double brood hive

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