Suffocated Queens?

Hi all,

I'm still learning regarding producing queen from Grafts but getting better at it, I discovered something at the weekend that I was surprised by.

I set up two sets of 20 grafts from the same queen in different q- colonies, I ended up with 15 viable cells which I was happy with but one set were a few days ahead of the other, I knew that some would emerge ahead of me being able to get back into them so decided to treat them as banked and to help me out put them all onto one bar into one hive, I also thought as an aid I'd add a couple of nurse bees into each hair roller cage (from the colony they were going into) as I'd heard that banked queens fair better like this.
I went in at the weekend and found that yes, some had emerged, but what had me perplexed was that the bees had sealed in some of the queens?
they'd blocked off all of the holes in the cage which had suffocated/starved the queens and attendants inside.

Does this happen much and why would they do this?

birdsandbees said:

Does this happen much and why would they do this?

Click to expand...

This is one of the reasons that I use an incubator - once the cell is sealed, the colony is only keeping them warm. If they decide that they have enough for their needs, they can/do dispose of the excess.
Do you think you may have a virgin running around in the cell raiser - sometimes they seal up unrequired queens when they have one they are happy with

B+. said:

This is one of the reasons that I use an incubator - once the cell is sealed, the colony is only keeping them warm. If they decide that they have enough for their needs, they can/do dispose of the excess.

Click to expand...

The plan originally was to put them in the Incubator but the humidity gadget inside has packed up so I thought they'd be better looked after in the hive, shows what I know
That does make sense now that you've said it, I'll just have to be more on the ball in future, I only lost two the other couple that were entombed revived quickly after clearing some holes thankfully.

birdsandbees said:

The plan originally was to put them in the Incubator but the humidity gadget inside has packed up so I thought they'd be better looked after in the hive, shows what I know
That does make sense now that you've said it, I'll just have to be more on the ball in future, I only lost two the other couple that were entombed revived quickly after clearing some holes thankfully.

Click to expand...

The gadgetry shouldn't prevent you from trying something. In most of the older bee books (Taber, etc) they just used a pan of water above a light bulb to create the humidity. In any case the RH just needs to be 50-70%. That is quite a range so it doesn't need to be controlled so precisely.
I prefer using an incubator but, I am sure, others bank the cells successfully in a queenless hive.

In setting a colony to bank with the b'keep must maintain
a kind of NoMansLand scenario in respect of "queenless".
The bees must be managed to be seeking a new queen yet
never have one - stuff it up and what you report happens.
Not my area of expertise as we only ever raise batches
of emergency queens, as we can any time of the year.
However I know enough about it to vouch for the above.


Bill

eltalia said:

In setting a colony to bank with the b'keep must maintain
a kind of NoMansLand scenario in respect of "queenless".
The bees must be managed to be seeking a new queen yet
never have one - stuff it up and what you report happens.
Not my area of expertise as we only ever raise batches
of emergency queens, as we can any time of the year.
However I know enough about it to vouch for the above.


Bill

Click to expand...

Thanks Bill, can you please elaborate?

I may have the wrong end of the stick but how do you bank queens in a colony and still be in a situation where the bees 'never have one'?
this colony was selected as they were rammed to the gunnels with bees, young bees and brood and had commenced swarm prep, queen was removed and placed in a Nuc, all swarm cells removed and then double checked six days later with every frame shaken off to find new queen cells which were also removed before adding the grafts.
The only queens present were the ones I put there in cells within hair roller cages none of which had escaped into the colony.

"Thanks Bill, can you please elaborate?"

Sure thing... to the limit of my knowledge on the topic, and in interpreting your config?

As a basic the colony is maintained owning capped or near to capped brood only, and
the whole of the operation in conditions where some degree of flow is on, as opposed
to running them (raisers) in dearth.
The numbers are kept high for the frames onboard yet not jammed packed.

So select those frames with some stores on board along with maybe two frames of
brood plus your cell raiser, making six total max. We have run three plus the cell
raiser, it just means cycling the single brood frame regular which translates to more
work/supervision.
As bees of all castes are present _and_ there is brood present - plus QCs and or
queens - the bees maintain that same 'attitude' displayed when a mated queen has
moved out with the swarm. leaving QCs about to emerge. A healthy 'limbo' window
you can maintain simply by replacing the brood frame(s) as bees emerge.
I cannot offer experience on adding "attendants" as it is not something that ever fell
as a thought to do, plus the fact queens will be attended to anyway on emergence.
Up until then all that is needed is temp and humidity to be maintained, by bees.

We run these in our 6frm nuclei but I have seen first hand a breeder doing much the
same thing using what is best described as a halfsize nucleus.
Too fiddly and 'specialised' for our yard.
Clear?

Bill