Mating flight

ShinySideUp · May 14, 2019

I think I saw a mating flight in my apiary today. I was ambling around the garden as I am wont to do when I saw what I thought was a swarm gathering. I lost (and then caught) a swarm from one of my hives the other day and was 99 per cent certain which one it was when I went in to do an inspection and found only one hive with sealed queen cells. I took these down to one cell and I'm sure I got all the others so when I saw a load of bees flying out to a bush today I thought I must have missed one and I was a annoyed at myself at first. I put my suit on and got ready to recover the swarm but a few minutes later the bees had dissipated, They had been flying with intent towards a nearby bush then...nothing. The hive had a lot of bees around the entrance and they slowly made their way back in after about half an hour. In hindsight I don't think there were enough bees to make a swarm but I'm unsure as to how many bees go with the queen on her mating flight. I'm going to leave that hive for a couple of weeks now and see if I have eggs.

Am I right in thinking it was a mating flight?

enrico · May 14, 2019

I have never, to my knowledge, seen one in 40 years so ..... Could have been!

Millet · May 14, 2019

Considering the Virgin Queens fly a considerable distance from the hive to get mated i would think it is unlikely.. unless a virgin from a distant unknown colony has spotted a drone congregation from another distant colony..

jenkinsbrynmair · May 14, 2019

ShinySideUp said:
I think I saw a mating flight in my apiary today. I was ambling around the garden as I am wont to do when I saw what I thought was a swarm gathering. I lost (and then caught) a swarm from one of my hives the other day and was 99 per cent certain which one it was when I went in to do an inspection and found only one hive with sealed queen cells. I took these down to one cell and I'm sure I got all the others so when I saw a load of bees flying out to a bush today I thought I must have missed one and I was a annoyed at myself at first. I put my suit on and got ready to recover the swarm but a few minutes later the bees had dissipated, They had been flying with intent towards a nearby bush then...nothing. The hive had a lot of bees around the entrance and they slowly made their way back in after about half an hour. In hindsight I don't think there were enough bees to make a swarm but I'm unsure as to how many bees go with the queen on her mating flight.
Am I right in thinking it was a mating flight?

Seen it a few times - a few bees go with the virgin on her mating flight but I think occasionally the colony gets carried away and a lot of others follow her out, realise their mistake then mill around aimlessly before sheepishly returning to the hive., sort of a mating swarm. When I was recovering from an injury incurred during a night interception at sea some time ago I spent quite a bit of time in the home apiary just pottering around and watching the bees - I had a few nucs there with queen cells I had left to make increas - evirgin queens newly emerged and awaiting mating and I observed the phenomenon a few times over a period of three days

eltalia · May 14, 2019

ShinySideUp said:
Am I right in thinking it was a mating flight?

I seriously doubt it.
However you are onsite and it is not possible to know here what you
know there so it can only be said that drones flying is very distinctive,
not something even a raw newbie would forget nor miss.

Also you do realise all this speculation(guessing) can be avoided
by simply using a QR gate at the entrance untill all cells have emerged
virgins and the bees sorted selection out?

Bill

ShinySideUp · May 14, 2019

Not having my suit on during the main flying bit I can't say for sure what was flying but JBM's description seems very much like what I saw. A lot of bees flying out and then dissipating back in. The whole scenario probably lasted at it's peak for no more than five minutes, possibly less. When I could get close enough to the hive I could see them pouring back into the entrance; water going down a drain is what it looked like. I've never seen anything like it before.

Well whatever it is/was I'll leave the hive now for ten days or so and see if I have any eggs.

The more I know, the less I know, it seems.

eltalia · May 14, 2019

Shiny,
If your bees are such you cannot get to the box suitless
then some serious adjustment for those colonys is in order.
Take that to the Bank.

Bill

beeno · May 15, 2019

Hi ShinySideUp,
It is my firm belief that what you saw was an aborted swarm attempt and they went back in the hive because the queen (prime or cast) did not go with them. They will try again today!

ShinySideUp · May 16, 2019

eltalia said:
Shiny,
If your bees are such you cannot get to the box suitless
then some serious adjustment for those colonys is in order.
Take that to the Bank.

Bill

You are surely joking! Bees sting, it's what they do. There is no way that anyone in their right mind will approach a hive wearing no protective equipment at all. You must be one of these macho American [Australian] Youtube posters who go in wearing nothing but a T shirt, a pair of shorts and a ****-sure opinion of their own invulnerability. Take THAT to the bank.

ShinySideUp · May 16, 2019

beeno said:
Hi ShinySideUp,
It is my firm belief that what you saw was an aborted swarm attempt and they went back in the hive because the queen (prime or cast) did not go with them. They will try again today!

They didn't. They have settled down and are no further trouble. I think I am right, it was a mating flight and I'm going with that as I am finally starting to trust my own judgement.

eltalia · May 16, 2019

Originally Posted by eltalia View Post
Shiny,
If your bees are such you cannot get to the box suitless
then some serious adjustment for those colonys is in order.
Take that to the Bank.

Bill

ShinySideUp said:
You are surely joking!

Nope.
PPE is for when the chainsaw/sawsAll gets a run, anything else
is quite manageable when one knows their stuff around Apis.*.
From memory I posted video recently demonstrating this very
thing, and from one of Britains finest no less.

It won't be just I who smell your fear, bees will be onto it also - in a snap.
Attached is my learning curve tute for newbies, designed to offer the
new player hope.
That and my post #5 would be worth consideration as you move
forward on this beekeeping gig.

Bill

madasafish · May 16, 2019

ShinySideUp said:
You are surely joking! Bees sting, it's what they do. There is no way that anyone in their right mind will approach a hive wearing no protective equipment at all. You must be one of these macho American [Australian] Youtube posters who go in wearing nothing but a T shirt, a pair of shorts and a ****-sure opinion of their own invulnerability. Take THAT to the bank.

Err sorry you are just plain wrong.

I have kept bees for 10 years and apart from 3 occasions when I have had an aggressive hive - I NEVER EVER wear protective clothing# when in the garden where the bees are.
NEVER includes grass cutting with a petrol lawnmower , strimming under the hives and taking visitors round (with care I must add). And I inspect gloveless (but do get stung)

My wife has never been stung nor our family any visitor.. in 10 years.. Oldest's son's GF's boxer has tho! Brainless dog..

I bought calm bees and now rear my own queens, culling all that are aggressive.

Anyone who has problems with aggressive bees is beekeeping as they did last but one century.

There are lots of suppliers of proven quiet queens.

I am not the only one with such bees...

But many UK beekeepers accept aggression: it is not needed..(Our local bees are horrible...)

Or maybe I am not in my right mind in which case the men in white suits have been delayed for over half a century ....

# hat, veil or jacket (I don't have a beesuit)

jenkinsbrynmair · May 16, 2019

ShinySideUp said:
I'm going with that as I am finally starting to trust my own judgement.

well, of the two of you - I think you have made the right choice

jenkinsbrynmair · May 16, 2019

eltalia said:
Shiny,
If your bees are such you cannot get to the box suitless
then some serious adjustment for those colonys is in order.
Take that to the Bank.

Bill

ShinySideUp said:
You are surely joking! Bees sting, it's what they do. There is no way that anyone in their right mind will approach a hive wearing no protective equipment at all. You must be one of these macho American [Australian] Youtube posters who go in wearing nothing but a T shirt, a pair of shorts and a ****-sure opinion of their own invulnerability. Take THAT to the bank.

Isn't there a saying - don't feed the troll

Finman · May 16, 2019

.
Mating flight is simple. There is nothing, what I can do.

What clothes people keep on, it is their own business.

philipm · May 16, 2019

What you wear when you check your bees is your own choice,but even the calmest bees have an off day. If you don't mind the occasional sting that's fine by me , I think I'll stick to wearing my bee suit for now ,A and E is busy enough without me going there.I think the bit about bees being able to sense your fear is also another myth spread by so called experts who should know better.

birdsandbees · May 16, 2019

Having witnessed and filmed a queen both Orienting and going out on a mating flight what you describe could be what you think it was.
what surprised me was the shortness of the mating flight, when she was taking her orientation flights it was a couple of minutes around the area with followers before returning, when she went out to mate she was gone for only around fifteen minutes and disappeared from sight.

Regarding a Bee suit in close proximity to hives, its a bit like wearing a seat belt in your car, you probably wont need it but you'll be glad you had it on in the event of an incident!

As has been said, all bees have off days, why risk it!

eltalia · May 16, 2019

philipm said:
(edit)
I think the bit about bees being able to sense your fear is also another
myth spread by so called experts who should know better.

As entitled as you are to choose your clobber when in the
apiary - at work or not - adding a value judgment to that
aired selection (Philip) colours that view, particularly
when the bigotry expressed in response to the assistance
offered is a line of silliness you choose to ignore in now airing
your view. Do you also support such behaviour?
Ref: post #9
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=44439

Whilst I can agree the jury is still out on Apis' ability to *sense*
fear it remains an accurate observation where it is always the
nervous reticent observer who gets pinged by guards - regardless
of their attire.
Run enough group tutorials and yourself may just be pushed to
consider Apis do indeed sense fear.

Bill

jenkinsbrynmair · May 16, 2019

Another bag of scrabble tiles gets spilled all over the thread........

Antipodes · May 16, 2019

Has anyone seen any film footage of a queen bee clearly leaving the hive to go on a mating flight and then returning?

A couple of weeks back I saw a queen European wasp mating, which was a first for me. It was on the ground in the bush at the time and it took me a few seconds to realise what it was that I was seeing.

Mating flight

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