oxalic acid and glycerine mix

mbc · Jan 16, 2017

"25 ml food grade glycerin warmed, 25g of Oxalic mixed til dissolved, soak in per shop towel then press out excess. Each towel should hold 25g treatment, total towel weight of 30g. Place towel ontop bar of hive which will be removed by the bees over 3-4 weeks. "
Copied from beesource http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?333119-Oxalic-Glycerin-Shop-Towels-a-promising-stopgap-flyswatter

I dont get the abj but am thinking of getting Januaries issue just for Randy Oliver's article on this.

Finman · Jan 16, 2017

.
This is first time when I heard about this, and I have written a lot about varroa.

What ever rubbish, and beesource forum is handling it

mbc · Jan 16, 2017

Finman said:
.
This is first time when I heard aboug this, and I have written a lot about varroa.

What ever rubbish, and beesource forum is handling it

That'll be because you're no longer welcome on bee-l or beesource Finman, your fingers no longer on the pulse!

By all accounts its an oxalic delivery method thats already had extensive use and success in Chile and Argentina on a commercial scale, dont write it off yet just because its new on your radar.

Finman · Jan 16, 2017

mbc said:
That'll be because you're no longer welcome on bee-l or beesource Finman, your fingers no longer on the pulse!

.

I wrote the a word "hell" and I was kicked off a month.
It is family forum.

Then I wrote "hah hah" to that month kick. and I was kicked for ever.

And I was any more on pulse. not any more, yes.
Before that I taught varroa treatment on forum, because Europe was 10 years ahead America.

And I was sick to read Michael Bushe's advices about varroa : do nothing! Rubbish forum, and you see the results. annual dead rate in USA 44% dead hives annually.

But in Europa, no one advice mix clycerin and oxalic acid.

Europe is most advanced in mite treatment. It is so clear thing.
And I do not need to be more advanced than European best methods are.

And I should know what they do in Argentina. Get a life..

Finman · Jan 16, 2017

mbc said:
dont write it off yet just because its new on your radar.

No wonder that I am not on radar. it is glycerine and not clycerine, like I wrote.

But this is amazing result
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13592-015-0405-7

MartinL · Jan 16, 2017

Three questions I'd ask;

How does Oxalic acid react with glycerine?

If the bees move it from top of hive, how does it kill without contacting the mites?

Aren't you just P!55!NG in the wind here?

Finman · Jan 16, 2017

.
Here is one year old discussion http://teca.fao.org/discussion/varroa-jacobsoni-natural-methods-fight-it?page=1

But I am not going to use my valuable hives as test rabbit.

Some one else do it first.
.

Hivemaker. · Jan 16, 2017

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36202

Finman · Jan 16, 2017

here is more. Have you met in practice

http://www.almondboard.com/PR/U.200...An Innovative Approach for Varroa Control.pdf

An Innovative Approach
for Varroa Control

Test mineral salts against Varroa mites based on preliminary field trials
performed in Europe between 1984 through 1994. The mineral salts tested:
Copper Gluconate, Calcium Gluconate, Potassium Citrate and Magnesium
Gluconate.

Copper Gluconate was found in some forum again..
.

charlievictorbravo · Jan 16, 2017

mbc said:
"25 ml food grade glycerin warmed, 25g of Oxalic mixed til dissolved, soak in per shop towel then press out excess. Each towel should hold 25g treatment, total towel weight of 30g. Place towel ontop bar of hive which will be removed by the bees over 3-4 weeks. "
Copied from beesource /QUOTE]

For the uninitiated, when Americans say shop, they mean workshop - when they say store, they mean shop!

So, a "shop towel" is probably one of those paper towels you can buy to clean your hands in your workshop. A good substitute would probably be a paper kitchen towel to absorb the glycerin/Api-Bioxal mixture.

Any takers for an experiment in your apiary?

CVB

P.S. This method of delivery of the Oxalic Acid to the bees is not dissimilar to Hm's method of delivering Thymol for an Autumn treatment.

Hivemaker. · Jan 17, 2017

charlievictorbravo said:
Any takers for an experiment in your apiary?

Easy enough to check out how effective the treatment would be, best if infected colonies used for the testing were as isolated as possible though.

Glycerine is readily available from a number of places.....

http://darrantchemicals.co.uk/vegetable-glycerine?gclid=CN_g-PLcydECFcW4GwodcL4Pkg

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SCOTT-Towe...=1484579403&sr=8-7&keywords=scott+shop+towels

Millet · Jan 17, 2017

What does the Glycerine do.. ? . Blow the Varroa to smithereens

SDM · Jan 17, 2017

Millet said:
What does the Glycerine do.. ? . Blow the Varroa to smithereens

Glycerine plus oxalic acid gives formic acid.
doesnt look like such a daft idea now.

charlievictorbravo · Jan 17, 2017

SDM said:
Glycerine plus oxalic acid gives formic acid.
doesnt look like such a daft idea now.

I know nothing about chemistry - at what point does it become Formic Acid - in the warm mixing pot or later, possibly in the hive as it desiccates?

CVB

P.S. Is the chemical reaction that creates the Formic Acid a violent one?

charlievictorbravo · Jan 18, 2017

Hivemaker. said:
Easy enough to check out how effective the treatment would be, best if infected colonies used for the testing were as isolated as possible though.

Glycerine is readily available from a number of places.....

http://darrantchemicals.co.uk/vegetable-glycerine?gclid=CN_g-PLcydECFcW4GwodcL4Pkg

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SCOTT-Towe...=1484579403&sr=8-7&keywords=scott+shop+towels

Glycerine (not Nitro, Millet!) is on Ebay from a Welsh firm (Classikool) for £6.79 for 1 litre - search for Classikool 1 Litre / 1000ml Pharma Grade 99.8% Vegetable Glycerine VG. Each 25g treatment comes at about 20p, more when Api-Bioxal is used, if you live in the UK. That's an inexpensive treatment but it does involve opening up the hive to place the "shop towel" on top of the frames - could take 5 seconds with the Crown Board off so not desperately stressful for the bees and no battery needed.

Could be a useful treatment if it is found to work in temperate conditions.

CVB

enrico · Jan 18, 2017

So a bit like using MAQS

foghornleghorn · Jan 18, 2017

Could it be used with supers on I wonder

mbc · Jan 18, 2017

foghornleghorn said:
Could it be used with supers on I wonder

They physically remove the paper towel, I wouldn't want the risk of chewed up paper towel contaminated with glycerine and oxalic in my supers.

Little John · Jan 18, 2017

Millet said:
What does the Glycerine do.. ? . Blow the Varroa to smithereens

From Randy Oliver's site:

3. The effect of the sugar in the OA solution is apparently as a humectant, which allows the acid to be absorbed more effectively through the bees chitinous “skin.” Glycerine will do the same. Plain water when it’s humid enough.

LJ

Oh - forgot to add - the well-known reaction of glycerol (not glycerine) with oxalic acid to form formic acid takes place at 110 deg C. And - FYI - glycerine is a low-purity form of glycerol.

fatshark · Jan 18, 2017

foghornleghorn said:
Could it be used with supers on I wonder

Well, it could be used with the supers on ... but no-one has measured residual OA levels after such treatment. It's been done for trickling, but weeks/months later.

I think MAQS remains the only approved treatment for use with supers present though am happy to be corrected.

oxalic acid and glycerine mix

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