National to commercial

Hi folks, im new to the forum and to bee keeping. I got bees on 5 national frames. They are now in a commercial brood chamber with 3 commercial frames either side. How can i get all my bees on commercial frames.
Thanks.

Hi and welcome!

I'm new too, so I'll give this my best shot but don't take it as gospel! Are the commercial frames foundation or comb? Has this been their setup through winter? I'm guessing they must be quite a prolific type to warrant a commercial brood.

I think maybe gradually working the national frames to the side in Spring once the brood has hatched, or perhaps a Bailey comb change with a feed when it's warm.

I'm sure more experienced advice will be along soon.

Welcome, when did you move the nuc into the commercial bb? Unless your nuc is bursting with bees, its a lot of work for them and bees won't draw any frames until they need the space or there is a flow. If your nuc has only 2 frames of bees then I wouldn't worry for a few months!

Danglee said:

Hi folks, im new to the forum and to bee keeping. I got bees on 5 national frames. They are now in a commercial brood chamber with 3 commercial frames either side. How can i get all my bees on commercial frames.
Thanks.

Click to expand...

Hiya

This time of year you have no hope of getting them onto the commercial frames as its 1, to cold and 2 there is nothing for them to want to build onto the frames as there is again 1, no flow on and 2, they are not ready to use it for brood.

Can you please put some sort of dummy board in the commercial brood box to take it back down to just 5 frames urgently your giving the bees to much space so they cant keep it warm.

In the spring at the end of April or early May they will be able to work the commercial frames and even then only if there is a good flow on or your feeding 1:1 syrup to help them.

Re the comments about the bees being prolific enough to work a commercial brood box, the national box is to small for most bees hence one and a half or double broods being used by most beekeepers at some stage with all bees. You need a big brood area if you would like a good honey crop and most bees could easily fill 2 commercial or even 3 commercial brood boxes with brood if given the chance.

PS if you put dummy boards instead of the commercial foundation frames, do not disturb the cluster and move any of the 5 frames, unless you don't want your nuc to make it through the winter. Also ensure they have access to food right above the cluster.

As the rest - when were they moved into the commercial box?
I preume they were in a nuc, I wouldn't have moved them on until spring was well underway and the nuc bursting with bees and brood - the easiest way would have been to put the 'nuc' in to one side of the new brood box, then a commercial frame or two with the rest of the hive dummied down, as they draw out the foundation and start to brood it I would add successive frames until the hive is full - that would mean all the national frames would be to one side with the brood in the middle, rearrange the national frames so that they are spread each end, remove when there is no brood in them and replace with commercial frames.

You will need a National or second commercial brood chamber using this method... Once the colony is doing well - say well into April, you can set up the hive as follows, from the bottom up.

Floor with entrance closed. National brood box with the national frames and no queen. Queen excluder. Eke (spacer of, say 1" wood) with an entrance to allow the bees in and out. Commercial brood box with the queen and frames pushed together and extra frames/foundation added to the sides. Crown board. Roof.

Bees will cover the brood that's in the lower box so you don't lose the brood. After 3 weeks - or 24 days if there is drone brood - all the brood will have emerged. During these 3 weeks, the bees will use the top entrance and as any stores are below them, they will (should) also remove the stores from the National frames. Once the nat frames have no brood in them, they can be removed with the brood box they are in. The eke and excluder can be removed and the colony can return to using the lower entrance. If there is not much forage, you could give them some thin syrup to help them draw the new foundation you have added to the box.

If you are not sure where the queen is, you could separate the frames into two boxes and after a few days (3+) you will see, by the presence of eggs, which box the queen is in. You still have to find her but it will be a little easier!

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I got the bees through my club at the end of June 2018.
They came in a 5 frame nuc box. I have a commercial hive so i put the 5 frames in the centre of the brood chamber and put commercial frames either side. They did draw out some of the frames with nectar and pollen but no brood. I know i probably should have moved them earlier but they were doing so well i didn't get to do it. They are grand at the moment and I have fondant in with them.

In the spring, when the colony is building and you are inspecting regularly, work the National frames out to the sides of the box, when they contain no brood, remove them and replace with Commercial frames.

Thanks , I'll give it a go in the spring.