Would a colony survive winter in a half nuc?

[BernardBlack]

Recently kept an old Queen in a poly nuc (3 framed half nuc) as backup.

Just wondered would a colony of this size survive the winter?

 

[madasafish]

Yes: easy
Dummy down.
Add more insulation on roof.
Feed fondant on top bars .

Why fondant on top bars?
Close contact with bees. Easy to access. Feeders at side or on top are inaccessible in cold weather.

I overwinter Kieler and Apideas mini nucs on same basis .

 

[Ian123]

Simple answer is yes they can I and others have overwintered minis. They still have time to build so I’d consider taking a frame of sealed brood from a larger hive and adding to the nuc ASAP. You then can judge size and feed in a couple of weeks with these new bees. Possibly keeping to five frames and a dummy as guessing your in a six frame poly.

 

[Wilco]

Yes, done smaller and they've got through in a wooden nuc. I didn't put fondant on top bars and was able to shelter them from the worst of the weather using a barn but definitely doable. Feed them well and make sure varroa treated.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Yes, done smaller and they've got through in a wooden nuc. I didn't put fondant on top bars and was able to shelter them from the worst of the weather using a barn but definitely doable. Feed them well and make sure varroa treated.

I had a few poly nucs on four frames last winter, as you said feed them well but not to much, they were wintered infront of a poly tunnel out of the wind and the omf floor was closed of with inspection board ( home made from estate agents for sale signs)

 

[Patrick1]

Yes it will work if you set it up well, the only time I failed to overwinter a queen was in an apidea, I tried everything, putting them in a brood box in the apidea, extra feeders on top, for years I got so frustrated with it I gave up in the end and used a 3 frame nuc, I think it’s the balance at the start of winter ( January/Februaru ) that seems to be the crucial time.

 

[madasafish]

Yes it will work if you set it up well, the only time I failed to overwinter a queen was in an apidea, I tried everything, putting them in a brood box in the apidea, extra feeders on top, for years I got so frustrated with it I gave up in the end and used a 3 frame nuc, I think it’s the balance at the start of winter ( January/Februaru ) that seems to be the crucial time.

I am using double apideas with a wooden cover# which protects them from rain/wind. Experience suggest with our local winter the number of bees is too small to overwinter without the cover. (ditto Kielers)
# with insulated roof.

 

[Ian123]

For consistent results minis are to small. It can be done but hit and miss. It really doesn’t take a lot to add/unite a few frames of bees late season and create a reasonable nuc.

 

[Apiarist]

I overwinter Kieler and Apideas mini nucs on same basis .

What is your survival rate, I've heard an average of around 20% death rate (of the queen) can occur in apideas.

I've taken single frame nucs through the winter, of the three that I tried, two survived, one of which was my best queen for that following year, so it didn't affect the quality of the Queen.

 

[Apiarist]

I am using double apideas with a wooden cover# which protects them from rain/wind. Experience suggest with our local winter the number of bees is too small to overwinter without the cover. (ditto Kielers)
# with insulated roof.

OHHH
You mean a wooden cozy (think tea cozy) all over the Apidea, for extra extra insulation and wind / rain protection! Very clever, and you find that this makes a big difference, mmm.

 

[Apiarist]

Feed fondant on top bars .

Why fondant on top bars?
Close contact with bees. Easy to access. Feeders at side or on top are inaccessible in cold weather.

I overwinter Kieler and Apideas mini nucs on same basis .

Do you put fondant in the Feeder in the Apidea or give them an extra two mini frames (and allow them to fill them up with stores), I can't really see where you could put fondant in an Apidea, although I have seen a beek cram fondant into / just under, the lid of an apidea.

The general consensus here in NI is that you cannot place fondant directly ontop of the top bars as it will drip down between them, so a mesh too small for the bees to get through (like the mesh used in varroa floors in OMF) is place under the fondant, and this is placed ontop of the top bars (plastic wrapping/container is placed over the top and sides to prevent it from drying out).
NB: I have never used fondant, but intend to use it next year with my apideas.

 

[Ian123]

I copied a friend who was doing it many years ago and put some in a shed on shelves on a sunny wall. Obviously with external entrance. You could then cover with any amount of additional insulation. We put an upturned kieller on top with a cricket ball sized lump of fondant on top.

 

[madasafish]

Do you put fondant in the Feeder in the Apidea or give them an extra two mini frames (and allow them to fill them up with stores), I can't really see where you could put fondant in an Apidea, although I have seen a beek cram fondant into / just under, the lid of an apidea.

The general consensus here in NI is that you cannot place fondant directly ontop of the top bars as it will drip down between them, so a mesh too small for the bees to get through (like the mesh used in varroa floors in OMF) is place under the fondant, and this is placed ontop of the top bars (plastic wrapping/container is placed over the top and sides to prevent it from drying out).
NB: I have never used fondant, but intend to use it next year with my apideas.

I use either two apideas one on top of the other (taped together) or one with an apidea super .Fill top feeder and replace feeder in lower half. Remove plastic CB and feed fondant in cling film with hole in bottom for bees to feed. Space for thing fondant with no cb.

Fondant placed raw on top bars will drip, in cling film (or grease proof paper) it will not.

 

[Apiarist]

I use either two apideas one on top of the other (taped together) or one with an apidea super .Fill top feeder and replace feeder in lower half. Remove plastic CB and feed fondant in cling film with hole in bottom for bees to feed. Space for thing fondant with no cb.

Fondant placed raw on top bars will drip, in cling film (or grease proof paper) it will not.

So ideally you have;
the Apidea with the feeder removed and replaced with two mini frames,
an Apidea Super placed on top of this, but with the Feeder still in place (is this Feeder filled with syrup or fondant? fondant I'm guessing?),
and on top of the lower frames (the plastic Crown Board has been removed) you place a slab of fondant wrapped in cling film on all sides (with a hole cut out of the bottom).

Have I understood that right?

 

[madasafish]

So ideally you have;
the Apidea with the feeder removed and replaced with two mini frames,
an Apidea Super placed on top of this, but with the Feeder still in place (is this Feeder filled with syrup or fondant? fondant I'm guessing?),
and on top of the lower frames (the plastic Crown Board has been removed) you place a slab of fondant wrapped in cling film on all sides (with a hole cut out of the bottom).

Have I understood that right?

Yes

 

[Apiarist]

You don't think a Mesh floor is needed, for ventilation, etc. there are many beeks here that now strongly believe they help the bees a lot, the debate is whether the Inspection Tray should be left in or not...

I've seen newer Apidea designs with an OMF of sorts:
I've experimented with overwintering hives with a solid floor and a small mesh floor, those with the mesh floor over winter better. I've also seen that the closed OMF seems to help them come out of the winter stronger but they do appear to use a bit more stores.

 

[oliver90owner]

What you don’t want is detritus building up on a tray below an OMF. It is likely to get damp and infested with all sorts of fauna and fungi, etc.

 

[madasafish]

With very small colonies, the problem is heat retention in periods of cold. Bees need to eat to survive. If they are torpid for prolonged periods due to cold and cannot move to eat, then the colony weakens.
Add an open floor makes thing worse, especially in windy locations.
Floor deposits are an irrelevance.

The KEYS to overwintering very small colonies are food and heat retention. So protection from cold, wind and rain. And monthly feeding.

I write from a location which is a frost pocket and from several years bitter experience.

 

[Patrick1]

We should re-evaluate the use of open mesh floors in general , they accumulate more rubbish than a solid floor would. The bees can clean a solid floor, with the mesh floor they cannot get to the rubbish to clear it out, wax moths ideal environment.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The whole point of an open mesh floor is that it should be......err open?
The solution to detritus buildup is to use the inspection boards for their stated purpose - inspecting for mite, at other times they should be left in the shed where they belong, and not under the floors.
If someone doesn't want the floors open to the elements then do what any rational person would - switch to solid floors