Why would the bees kill their larvae?

[Anduril]

The images aren't great, but they look more like wax moth larvae. A better picture would be with them on the frame. Do the frames have silky webbing (wax moth) or have your stores started fermenting and the frames look glossy which would indicate small hive beetle.

 

[jarmo henttu]

View attachment 40138View attachment 40139

What about varroa

 

[BexGotBees]

The images aren't great, but they look more like wax moth larvae. A better picture would be with them on the frame. Do the frames have silky webbing (wax moth) or have your stores started fermenting and the frames look glossy which would indicate small hive beetle.

 

[BexGotBees]

[Package bees installed 4/6] I found a dead bee on the bottom of the hive, and it was covered in "webs" and when I pulled on the webbing, this larvae crawled out and tried to get back in. I had seen the bees try to push swaths of webbing from the entrance as well. I still see no varroa, nor beetles, and there is a frame with one side about ⅔ full of empty comb, except for about twenty dead & almost completely formed larvae (that looked like drone cells) no honey stores, no nectar or bee bread. I'm convinced this hive was weak, then the moths came in and just about killed them off. I obtained a new queen tuesday because I can't see one in the hive (not many bees left so I'm sure I'd have seen her) and I took a frame of honey & bees from another hive, and a frame of brood from another and placed them in there as well (i sprayed them with sugar syrup). Tomorrow will be day three with the new queen still in her cage and I will check to see if she's been fed or if it looks like she'll be rejected, hopefully they'll accept her any advice as to what to look for when I open it up tomorrow? How will I know if they've accepted her? Bees are coming and going since I placed the new frames so I'm hopeful! Oh, and I moved the frames from a regular hive into a nucleus hive so they don't have too much excess room for any more pests to invade while they hopefully recoup. Did I do ok in your opinion? Hopefully, I didn't wait too long pretty sure I was down to only nurse bees, and DRONES and maybe not more than a thousand bees all together.

 

[Anduril]

Wax moth will take advantage of a weak hive and you may have inadvertently killed the queen during manipulations, it happens. Varroa can hide underneath the abdominal segments of the bees, one reason why you haven't seen any and a hive that is now starving, plus the pathogens derived from varroa. The queen introduction may or may not work, you have to look out for abdomens sticking up in the air if they like the queen or abdomens down trying to sting her. But if you have drone laying workers then the queen will be rejected. Keep us posted.

 

[Antipodes]

This is what is destroying my hive.

It looks like a maggot of some sort feasting on the dead larva.

 

[BexGotBees]

The images aren't great, but they look more like wax moth larvae. A better picture would be with them on the frame. Do the frames have silky webbing (wax moth) or have your stores started fermenting and the frames look glossy which would indicate small hive beetle.

What's strange is I see none of the webbing on the frames. I've seen larvae on the observation board but didn't know for sure which they were. No goo or slime on the frames either. I thought varroa, as several have suggested, but I haven't seen a single one and I've pulled several bee larva out and some are drones, but zero varroa. The hive is so weak I can't spare any bees for a wash to be certain it's not. Not yet anyway.

 

[Antipodes]

What's strange is I see none of the webbing on the frames. I've seen larvae on the observation board but didn't know for sure which they were. No goo or slime on the frames either. I thought varroa, as several have suggested, but I haven't seen a single one and I've pulled several bee larva out and some are drones, but zero varroa. The hive is so weak I can't spare any bees for a wash to be certain it's not. Not yet anyway.

The photo you posted was not wax moth larva or varroa but a maggot or worm of some sort eating the dead, undeveloped bee. The maggot isn’t the thing that killed the undeveloped bee, but is simply eating it after it died. Billions of bees die around the world every day and are eaten up by all manner of things.

 

[BugsInABox]

The photo you posted was not wax moth larva or varroa but a maggot or worm of some sort eating the dead, undeveloped bee. The maggot isn’t the thing that killed the undeveloped bee, but is simply eating it after it died. Billions of bees die around the world every day and are eaten up by all manner of things.

What happened in the end Bex - did they ever recover enough so you could do a wash (or do a sugar roll which doesn’t kill them necessarily).

 

[fian]

In its first paragraph it indicates that they are in a time of pollen shortage. The workers cannibalize the offspring to keep the protein index high in order to extend their longevity and overcome the period of famine.

 

[BexGotBees]

Well, a lot has happened since my last post. There was no queen, so the hive was in a death spiral. I contacted the merchant that I purchased the package, and they sent me a fresh, new, marked queen! I transferred the existing frames that looked decent to a nuc hive so they could recoup in a smaller environment, and I found hoards of wax moth larvae and webbing on the floor of the hive.i also found two wax moth on the outside frames in the hive with larvae in empty comb. (Mind you, this hive was less than two months in the brand new box.)
I installed my Queen in the nuc, with two frames, each from my existing hives, one with brood, and nurse bees (sprayed with 1:1 syrup) and one with honey & comb and a few bees as well. That was a month ago.
Today, I am happy to report that I am preparing to re-home the nucleus colony into a new hive, having placed the frames I previously pulled into refrigeration to kill whatever moths (or parasites) could have been on the frames.
They still aren't progressing as well as I think they should be, but they're on the right path. I have continued to feed them 1:1 syrup with supplements added, just to help them out.
The pollen and nectar are still quite abundant, so I'm positive that was never a factor. I live in an area that is dense with blooming trees, flowers, grasses, and plants that are providing substantial foraging of nectar and pollen. I planted a garden and many flower beds on my property to help sustain the bees.
I think the queen was weak straight out, and moths got a hold in the hive, and finished taking it down. Something happened to the queen, could've been myself that inadvertently killed her, who knows? I appreciate your advice, and follow-up! It is nice to know I have a resource here!
Thank you!!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well, a lot has happened since my last post. There was no queen, so the hive was in a death spiral. I contacted the merchant that I purchased the package, and they sent me a fresh, new, marked queen! I transferred the existing frames that looked decent to a nuc hive so they could recoup in a smaller environment, and I found hoards of wax moth larvae and webbing on the floor of the hive.i also found two wax moth on the outside frames in the hive with larvae in empty comb. (Mind you, this hive was less than two months in the brand new box.)
I installed my Queen in the nuc, with two frames, each from my existing hives, one with brood, and nurse bees (sprayed with 1:1 syrup) and one with honey & comb and a few bees as well. That was a month ago.
Today, I am happy to report that I am preparing to re-home the nucleus colony into a new hive, having placed the frames I previously pulled into refrigeration to kill whatever moths (or parasites) could have been on the frames.
They still aren't progressing as well as I think they should be, but they're on the right path. I have continued to feed them 1:1 syrup with supplements added, just to help them out.
The pollen and nectar are still quite abundant, so I'm positive that was never a factor. I live in an area that is dense with blooming trees, flowers, grasses, and plants that are providing substantial foraging of nectar and pollen. I planted a garden and many flower beds on my property to help sustain the bees.
I think the queen was weak straight out, and moths got a hold in the hive, and finished taking it down. Something happened to the queen, could've been myself that inadvertently killed her, who knows? I appreciate your advice, and follow-up! It is nice to know I have a resource here!
Thank you!!

Thanks for the update. It’s always good to hear how these problems turn out. So many people ask, get advice and disappear so my faith is restored. Thank you.
Good luck with your bees

 

[BexGotBees]

Oh, I have not done a sugar roll as yet, but I plan on that when I move the girls to their new (again) home. I wanted them to get strong and not meddle with the hive any more than necessary, but that's my plan, and I have oaxalic acid, a vaping wand, and a respirator all ready and waiting to go.

 

[BexGotBees]

What are your thoughts on insulating the telescoping lid with Styrofoam on the inside? Good/bad? Should I put something over the styrofoam? It's been in the 100's here, and going to be up to 110° this next week, all week.

Oh, I have not done a sugar roll as yet, but I plan on that when I move the girls to their new (again) home. I wanted them to get strong and not meddle with the hive any more than necessary, but that's my plan, and I have oaxalic acid, a vaping wand, and a respirator all ready and waiting to go.

 

[Erichalfbee]

What are your thoughts on insulating the telescoping lid with Styrofoam on the inside? Good/bad? Should I put so.ething over it? It's been in the 100's here, and going to be up to 110° this week, all week.

Yes insulate the top. A lot of us use 50mm PIR. That house insulation with a foil covering.

 

[BexGotBees]

View attachment 20240630_104548.mp4

In its first paragraph it indicates that they are in a time of pollen shortage. The workers cannibalize the offspring to keep the protein index high in order to extend their longevity and overcome the period of famine.

They were dragging the larvae out because the hive was dying. No queen, and wax moths had moved in. When I purchased the package, it was the beginning of spring, and the start of the pollen dearth. My other hives were thriving. This one was very weak.

BTW, sugar roll results, zero varroa, and there were no hive beetles in sight, in this hive anyway.

The swarm I caught after I installed the package now has a medium super installed, it looks like textbook perfect.

My original hive has a third super installed, but no honey stored on that one yet.

 

[BexGotBees]

Yes insulate the top. A lot of us use 50mm PIR. That house insulation with a foil covering.

Thank you soooo much!

 

[Antipodes]

What are your thoughts on insulating the telescoping lid with Styrofoam on the inside? Good/bad? Should I put something over the styrofoam? It's been in the 100's here, and going to be up to 110° this next week, all week.

With a langstroth telescoping lid (I presume you are using lanngys there?), 50mm I wouldn't think would fit well within the telescoping lid recess. Do you put anything on top of your frames like a piece of Reflectix or a crownboard? Do you have a photo of your lid showing its depth perhaps?

 

[BexGotBees]

With a langstroth telescoping lid (I presume you are using lanngys there?), 50mm I wouldn't think would fit well within the telescoping lid recess. Do you put anything on top of your frames like a piece of Reflectix or a crownboard? Do you have a photo of your lid showing its depth perhaps?

Yep, using a Langstroth hive... I don't have a photo, but I'm sure it's typical. I haven't used any type of insulation as yet, just tried fitting Styrofoam in this morning and was seeking an opinion on that.