Why does my uniting never work?

[Into the lions den]

The devil is in the detail of prepare the hive.

News paper has worked for me every time for over 20 years. YOu need to ask yourself what you are doing wrong.

As for spraying weird substances in hives, I am dead against.

PH

PH, I know where you are coming form on that, but it really does work a treat. I was a sceptic when I heard of it first.

The real big benefit is when you have 30 or 40 top halves with young queens, to unite back to the old queen section beneath, on a wild and windy moorland. Wrestling with newspaper can be such a PITA that you end up not bothering completing the task.............whereas is can be just lift, spray, put back togerther.....stick the flight boards back on the truck.......go away.

For whoever it was who mentoned selecting the queen at that time...............we do not do so.......let nature take its course.

 

[Ivor Kemp]

Poly Hive "you need to ask yourself what you are doing wrong" is exactly what I am doing on this forum!!

It seems I have received two pieces of bad advice from Mr Cushman's useful tips on the Internet.

Perhaps what I am doing wrong is reading his pages and acting on them.

just very sad that this has resulted in the death of so many bees!

 

[REDWOOD]

Just a single sheet of newspaper and little tears with the hive tool always works for me but i do it all at once.

Ted H suggests using a QE to hold the paper down if it's windy.

Redwood, was that Air Freshener suggestion legit?

Yes and It was also recommended by a Queen supplier for introduction of a new queen but I have never tried that

 

[Hivemaker.]

It seems I have received two pieces of bad advice from Mr Cushman's useful tips on the Internet.

Perhaps what I am doing wrong is reading his pages and acting on them.

Placing the paper on at the time of uniting is best,not several hours earlier.

From DC site.
Very little fighting normally occurs, although on odd occasions fighting results in the deaths of many bees. Luckily such occasions are so rare that I have only seen it once in a thirty year period and I am one that has taken a few chances. http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/unitenewspaper.html

 

[Ivor Kemp]

Odd occasions?

Following his advice has led to three consecutive failures and the loss of many bees!

 

[Poly Hive]

The point I was making, seemingly badly was that the Cushman advice is good, the application of it is the problem.

The paper goes on as you put the boxes together. Not hours before. Never seen that specified and there comes a point in writing these things out where assumptions are made as to some information being understood.

That is the problem here. The information has been misunderstood.

Hopefully this clears that up.

PH

 

[SunnyRaes]

To be fair, having looked at the same site earlier this week, I read the advice exactly as Ivor Kemp read it - that the newspaper goes on early in the day, the colonies are left, and then united at night. So if this advice was misunderstood, it was misunderstood at least twice, and I recall the advice was very clear....

We ended up not following this advice and put the newspaper on just before the merge. I guess we will find out how successful the merge was at the weekend

 

[Ivor Kemp]

Thanks Sunny Rae.

Not sure how you can misunderstand what he wrote but still!

I should have said it appears that by following DC's advice resulted in the loss of many bees.

There may have been other reasons but it does seem more than a coincidence given the forthright contradictory statements made on this thread.

 

[richardbees]

thanks RW, I'm going to unite a few small hived swarms into strong hives over the next few days and will try it (obviously with a QE in place)

 

[flemage]

Sorry if I am reading this wrong or I just don't understand but I don't really get the bit with using a QE in this.

you open up the bottom box place newspaper on then QE, small holes in newspaper. Other box on top.

But if you are going for the 'let the queens fight it out' method surly they can't do that as they are separated by the QE?

Really sorry if this is blinding obvious to others but its late......

I was going to do a unite but called off due to finding eggs and I had gone for a can of haze method but it would be good to understand this way as well.

Many thanks

 

[meidel]

This is the cushman link http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/unitenewspaper.html

You'll find that he suggests that utilisation of the queen excluder is a variation. So if you're not going to let the queens fight it out and have already selected your preferred queen you may use the QEx.

I personally did use the QEx on the one occasion I combined 2 brood boxes of bees, but I was so concerned about the drones getting out I returned the next day and removed it. They were yellow bees and had combined without a murmur.

 

[Ivor Kemp]

flemage to be fair on this point Dave Cushman suggests not using a QE until he writes:

Yet another variation is to use one or two queen excluders, so that the bees combine, but the queens cannot meet. If the upper box does not contain frames, a swarm may be dumped into it. In either case the queen from the upper box will be found on the upper surface of the topmost queen excluder after most of the bees have gone through the newspaper.[/I]

 

[melias]

I don't think that all this concern about air freshener makes sense given that we routinely put much more toxic substances into our hives (thymol, oxalic acid, etc.)

 

[protheroe]

I don't think that all this concern about air freshener makes sense given that we routinely put much more toxic substances into our hives (thymol, oxalic acid, etc.)

ive never seen any problems with the bees after using it.You are not trying to cover the bees in it but getting the air around the top one bb and the bottom of the other bb smelling the same.

 

[Cazza]

Newspaper unite has worked for me over many years. No need for QE, just map pin the corners of the paper onto the bb if it is windy (think hospital corners on beds.) Easy.
Cazza

 

[Ivor Kemp]

Cazza and do you put the bees together straight away after pinning down the paper like many on here have said?

If so, this would further indicate there is very bad advice on the internet which tells you to prepare the paper during the day and then put the boxes together later that evening.

 

[plumberman]

my halfpenny worth - I've always used the cushman method- remove crownboard, pin paper (usually the telegraph.....) over, replace crownboard, roof. In evening, remove roof, crownboard and gently plonk other colony over. Very few bees lost, and for me no problems.

With respect to OP I personally think that whether you do it as above or immediately is immaterial, and I don't think the books/internet should be rewritten as a result.

Coincidence, bad luck or other factors? ITLD makes a strong case for the blacker bees being generally more resistant to our manipulations than other strains.

 

[Ivor Kemp]

pin paper (usually the telegraph.....)

Oh that explains it ...

... I used the Guardian!!

 

[Polyanwood]

I've never had any trouble with newspaper, but I did check a friends bees once and found the top box all dead because he had used too many sheets of newspaper and made no holes.

I've also successfully used baby talcum powder and perfume to unite colonies. I prefer to use them rather than air freshener as at least they have been tested on humans.

 

[susbees]

The devil is in the detail of prepare the hive.

News paper has worked for me every time for over 20 years. YOu need to ask yourself what you are doing wrong.

As for spraying weird substances in hives, I am dead against.

PH

Quite....use of chemicals I wouldn't use even for purpose....why?

One sheet newspaper over early evening with a couple of tiny holes..then QE....then proven QL hive. Works every time. Finish combine after 48 hours or so.

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