When to inspect requeened hive?

[isitafox]

Apologies for the length of this but need to get all the history in!

So last summer (late August) I got a nuc off a friend who had to get rid, wasn't expecting any honey just building up into a full hive.
I went to check one week in late September and the queen was nowhere to be seen but there were 3 sealed queen cups so I left them for a couple of weeks to see what would happen. Queen hatched literally the last week of Sept and luckily mated fine and was laying early Oct but obviously the colony was starting to shrink down for winter.

I left them to it feeding over winter just seeing if they'd make it through to this year which they did.
Hive only had about 5 frames getting used for laying until the recent warm weather when it went mad and the hive suddenly filled. I ordered a super ready to give them some room to move (were still 2 frames only ½ drawn out) but when I went to put it on last week I found I couldn't find the queen and there were about 5 queen cups (one supercedure, 3 on bottom of a frame all sealed and a couple unsealed but with larvae).
I bit the bullet thinking they weren't swarming as the cups were sealed and the bees were still present so I destroyed all but the supercedure, put the super on and left them.

It's been a week and I've looked at the hive every day since and there's loads if activity in and out, so again I'm sure they're not swarming, but I'm unsure as to when I should inspect again to see if the egg hatched and if I have a queen again.

Opinions?

 

[Murox]

Read This Now all about what to do when you encounter swarm cells in your hive. And this is a link to the full document library of the WBKA.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Apologies for the length of this but need to get all the history in!

So last summer (late August) I got a nuc off a friend who had to get rid, wasn't expecting any honey just building up into a full hive.
I went to check one week in late September and the queen was nowhere to be seen but there were 3 sealed queen cups so I left them for a couple of weeks to see what would happen. Queen hatched literally the last week of Sept and luckily mated fine and was laying early Oct but obviously the colony was starting to shrink down for winter.

I left them to it feeding over winter just seeing if they'd make it through to this year which they did.
Hive only had about 5 frames getting used for laying until the recent warm weather when it went mad and the hive suddenly filled. I ordered a super ready to give them some room to move (were still 2 frames only ½ drawn out) but when I went to put it on last week I found I couldn't find the queen and there were about 5 queen cups (one supercedure, 3 on bottom of a frame all sealed and a couple unsealed but with larvae).
I bit the bullet thinking they weren't swarming as the cups were sealed and the bees were still present so I destroyed all but the supercedure, put the super on and left them.

It's been a week and I've looked at the hive every day since and there's loads if activity in and out, so again I'm sure they're not swarming, but I'm unsure as to when I should inspect again to see if the egg hatched and if I have a queen again.

Opinions?

Those were swarm cells and the colony had swarmed. There was never a supersedure cell there at all. At least you reduced to one. I usually look in three weeks. Just a quick check to see if there are eggs but it often takes longer especially if the weather hasn’t been good.

 

[user 819]

It's been a week and I've looked at the hive every day since and there's loads if activity in and out, so again I'm sure they're not swarming, but I'm unsure as to when I should inspect again to see if the egg hatched and if I have a queen again.

Opinions?

If it has been a week since you saw the sealed QC then the new VQ will have emerged, leave alone and allow nature to take it's course. One can often expect to see eggs after 2 - 3 weeks but sometimes it can be a little longer.

It is hard to be precise of anything without a date line/timings of when events were noticed. Knowing when they swarmed and when the cell was started or sealed is needed to be more exact.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Opinions?

They've swarmed.
people really need to forget this myth about the position of the QC dictates what the bees are doing.
If there is more than one QC, regardless of position, they are going to, or have swarmed
If there is only one QC, regardless of position, they may be superseding - or they may be preparing to swarm.
I'm also a bit confused with your statement

I ordered a super ready to give them some room to move

Do you mean to say you had no supers (plural) in readiness before now? in reality you should have at least three shallows ready to super each hive you have. It's too late to put one on when the last super (or brood box for that matter) is nearly full

 

[isitafox]

But surely swarming would have resulted in the number of bees in the hive being considerably less?
As for not having a number of supers ready I didn't want to spend a lot of money on something I wouldn't need if the colony died off as I wouldn't be replacing them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

But surely swarming would have resulted in the number of bees in the hive being considerably less?

No. Consider how many new bees are emerging daily. Thousands
When previously had you looked in?
Sealed cells and no queen are usually a bit of a giveaway

 

[isitafox]

No. Consider how many new bees are emerging daily. Thousands
When previously had you looked in?
Sealed cells and no queen are usually a bit of a giveaway

But the colony wasn't anywhere near what you'd consider full to begin with is my point, I saw it more as queen wasn't living upto her duty especially being such a latecomer last year so colony take matters into their own hands and do away

 

[Hachi]

it doesn't need to be full hive to swarm they'll swarm for various reasons space being a single potential.

 

[jeff33]

But the colony wasn't anywhere near what you'd consider full to begin with is my point

When bees will have the same way of thinking as we have, beekeeping will stop being a mystery and we will all be master at it. As Hachi said bees swarm for many reasons especially if they have a high inclination to do so.

Your bees have swarmed.

 

[Erichalfbee]

But the colony wasn't anywhere near what you'd consider full to begin with is my point, I saw it more as queen wasn't living upto her duty especially being such a latecomer last year so colony take matters into their own hands and do away

The queen cells tell me they have swarmed. They were swarm cells I’m sure

 

[Ringlander]

It has been a strange year though.... Three of my four hives have had both sealed and nearly sealed queen cells (ie:multiple cells) in the hive at the same time as productive queens this year. In every case I found open queen cells, then eggs and then the capped cell(s) and concluded that they has swarmed before finding the queen wandering around while I was looking for more cells to knockdown. I concluded that the queen was holding off swarming until the weather improved, but the most recent occurance was several days into the good weather. Once again the bees do what they choose, not what we expect.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It has been a strange year though.... Three of my four hives have had both sealed and nearly sealed queen cells (ie:multiple cells) in the hive at the same time as productive queens this year. In every case I found open queen cells, then eggs and then the capped cell(s) and concluded that they has swarmed before finding the queen wandering around while I was looking for more cells to knockdown. I concluded that the queen was holding off swarming until the weather improved, but the most recent occurance was several days into the good weather. Once again the bees do what they choose, not what we expect.

Yes I have often found capped cells with the queen present.
Finding capped cells no eggs and no queen is a different matter though

 

[ericbeaumont]

I saw it more as queen wasn't living up to her duty...so colony take matters into their own hands and do away

Yes, but they do it either by supersedure or swarming, and in the swarm season are just as likely to swarm on supersedure.

For example, I had a colony on double brood in which the queen ticked all the boxes except that she was failing to lay in quantity and pattern.

In May a supersedure cell appeared but was torn down during the poor weather in the following week; I watched out of interest (by this time they were on the third super) and discovered last week five QCs and the clipped queen gone; splits were made and a swarm avoided.

The intention of this colony was to replace the queen and they got there in the end. Yours achieved the same goal but with the loss of a swarm.

 

[user 819]

Double post removed.

 

[user 819]

But surely swarming would have resulted in the number of bees in the hive being considerably less?
As for not having a number of supers ready I didn't want to spend a lot of money on something I wouldn't need if the colony died off as I wouldn't be replacing them.

Not much of a thinking or proactive beekeeper then !!!