what my best option?

[beesleybees]

Hi guys,

I have a bit of a problom with 2 hives I bought. It along story but both hives have no sign of a queen. no eggs or larvae and the amount of capped brood is dire (15 capped cells on 10 frames). There is however tons of bees, enough to fill a brood box and 2 supers. I have tried to locate the queen a few times without sucess in both hives. The guy I bought them off had them on brood and a half so I put the qx inbetween the brood box and the half to hopefully see which box she was in but Im still finding no eggs.

Whats really getting to me is the brood situation. Its just none existent. Even If the original queen had swarmed before I picked them up, surely there would still be at least 4 frames of brood left (picked the hives up 9th may)

Only thing I can think is there could be a virgin queen in each hive but I just cant find her. It could explain why there are no eggs, but it could take at least another week or 2 before she is mated and laying.

I dont have another hive with eggs on frames so cannot provide a test frame for the 2 hives in question

I have however been sent today 2 mated queens, paid for by the guy I purchased the hives off.

Now Im unsure what my best course of action is, do I -

1. Add the queens directly to the hives and hope for the best? If they are queenless, she should get on with laying but if not, the 2 queens will battle it out and I could lose both?

2. Should I make up 2 nucleus's and add the queens to these, that way again she will get on with laying without the risk of being killed by another queen. I can then add either some eggs or the whole nucleus to the hives?

3. Is there another option?

 

[rae]

Your problem is that you have no idea what is in there now.

If there is a virgin, then you could lose your new queens. Virgins are notoriously hard to find.

If you have nuc boxes, then I would take a frame out of each hive, and check it really, really, really closely for a queen. Then introduce the queen to that frame (brood + house bees). You stand a reasonable chance of introduction going well (use the search function for how to do this).

My next step may be a bit mad, others can comment.

I would then take a frame of stores and brood out of the hive, clear ALL the bees off it, and then stick it in the nuc. Then fill the nuc with foundation

I would then move the hives, and replace the nucs on site. The nucs will be massively boosted by the flying bees, and the hives will be depleted.

You may be able to find the virgins in the depleted hives, or they may just get mated and start laying, or they may not exist. In (say) 2 weeks, give them a test frame from the nucs. If they raise QCs, then tear them down and merge with a nuc. If no QCs, then you have a virgin in there. Either kill her and merge with the other nuc, or get ready for 3 colonies.

 

[beesleybees]

anyone else care to offer some advice?

 

[drex]

Thinking it through, it takes 21 days for eggs to hatch into workers. You have 15 capped cells of brood only, so the queen left 21 days ago. You bought the hives 13 days ago, and this has been recognised by the supplier who has given you two queens.

You do not know if you have virgins in the hive. Assume the queen left 21 days ago. She will usually go just before or when Queen cell is sealed. Takes 8 days for queen to hatch after it is sealed, so it likely the virgin emerged 13 days ago. I believe they do not usually go out on mating flight for a few days, so virgin should have been in hive when you bought and moved it, so assume she is there. I assume you have looked in these hives quite a bit hence disturbing any virgin in there.

I would look and look again for virgins but they can be hard to spot.

I think the best thing to do would be to put new queens in mating nucs, adding a few bees. That way you will not disturb the virgins much more.

Or as Rae suggests move the hives, shake bees off some of the old frames, which are empty or just have stores, and put those frames in new hive on old site and collect flying bees, and then add your new queen in a cage.

Hope for a more experienced beek to give you their ideas.