Weired Goings On

[Millet]

I checked my weak colony on brood + half last week and what i observed was very few bees up top near the fondant and several dead bees on the comb and a few live ones walking about..it was a cold day so i would have expected them clustering around the fondant.. checked again today it was warm with all colonies flying and the top of the frames where full of bees...i instantly thought robbing but most of the bees where all over the comb in the top box that contains no stores at all and a good amount on the fondant...
Is it possible that the weak colony moved down into the brood box last week and clustered down there maybe to cover brood or could the bees be from my other colonies sniffing the place out for the fondant left in there...i did not want to open them up to look in the brood box..but it has me stumped as to me it looked like it had died out last week.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

colony had died out last week, what you have now is probably robbers

 

[Millet]

The reason i opened them up today was to remove the hive from its spot and take everything home to tidy the frames and boxes up ready for use this year..i will bite the bullet next weekend and gently open them up and see if i can reclaim the frames and boxes..all the other colonies have plenty of stores or fondant would they still try and rob at this time of the year when pollen is plentiful on the flowering bulbs..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

bees are opportunists, if theres food they can take, they'll take it, especially when there is little else around

 

[Millet]

It is 1.5 hrs away but i am now going there tomorrow to settle my doubt..i will report back on the outcome..

 

[enrico]

I will lay my money on the fact that they are ok. Just reduced numbers. They will survive. Be I treated to see what the outcome is!
E

 

[Murox]

I do hope they survive. It will be interesting to hear the result in due course - if you will share that.

 

[Ian123]

If you did not check down in the brood box on your first trip the cluster could have been there so good luck and fingers crossed. Certainly in cold temps I find bees won’t travel to fondant it’s always best placed in contact with the cluster so did you see them when you placed the stuff originally. Bees being bees clusters don’t always move up, on sunny sites many of mine move to the hive wall that’s warmed by the sun or in double nucs to shared partition wall

 

[Millet]

I have been through both boxes today..no brood and no sign of the Queen after two sweeps ..I did not remove the hive as it is a tad cold to shake them all out so I will leave them to empty whatever stores are in there...one other thing though should there have been a carpet of dead bees on the mesh floor ..?

 

[masterBK]

Absence of dead bees. Not if they have absconded. Get Marie Celeste hives towards the end with Varroa.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have been through both boxes today..no brood and no sign of the Queen after two sweeps ..I did not remove the hive as it is a tad cold to shake them all out so I will leave them to empty whatever stores are in there...one other thing though should there have been a carpet of dead bees on the mesh floor ..?

Not if the queen cacked it some time ago - they will carry on clearing their dead away until the colony gets too small to survive

 

[Ian123]

Did not think you were going back till next weekend or was it an excuse to see your lady friend��

 

[Millet]

Absence of dead bees. Not if they have absconded. Get Marie Celeste hives towards the end with Varroa.

It was too cold for them to abscond not that they needed to as they had food but not enough bees to keep themselves warm and they had no varroa or very little as i am always on top with varroa treatments.

 

[Millet]

Not if the queen cacked it some time ago - they will carry on clearing their dead away until the colony gets too small to survive

Its a shame...she was a bought in 2018 Queen from GM and started of brilliant...however they did have a varroa problem that took some getting on top of but i did in the end toward Autumn time..after that she was laying too many drones...around one drone per ten workers so i had my doubts back then..she must have just been a dud the other three from the same batch are doing great..

 

[Millet]

Did not think you were going back till next weekend or was it an excuse to see your lady friend��

I could not stop thinking about the colony and with the weather being half ok i decided to go for it today..it's the first one i have lost since i got going and i doubt it will be my last..lady friend wise it is always good to see her..

 

[Millet]

Well... the plot thickens and now has me baffled..i want to reclaim the hive so i went through it again today as the weather was glorious..as before no brood and no Queen found..but it is still full of bees and angry bees they are...(not the GM Queen temperament like the other three)...even more strange the bees have been cleaning the stores out of the brood box and putting them in the super above them..(B+H) by the way..
Has anyone ever witnessed bees from another colony taking a empty colony over and stopping in there with no Queen..? ... the reason i am thinking this is because my very aggressive hive has very few which have the same temperament as the bees in the Queen - hive..i still dare not shake them out though incase a Queen of some sort is in there but surely she should be laying by now like the rest of them.. HELP..

 

[enrico]

I still reckon they have a queen. Bees from another hive would not take over a hive.
E

 

[Millet]

I still reckon they have a queen. Bees from another hive would not take over a hive.
E

How can there be that amount of bees in the hive though ?..i looked a while back and all that was in there was a grape fruit size cluster under the fondant..now it is full of bees and i have seen no brood cappings what so ever on the inspection board that has been in 24/7..

 

[Murox]

Certainly a bit of a puzzle, but if its full of bees, like Enrico, my money would be on there being a queen in the hive. Your queen may have stopped laying because she’s no longer fertile or she is taking a brood break.
If there is plenty of honey and pollen, but a lack of any brood it can suggest that your hive might be queenless; but a queenless colony usually tries to replace its queen - any queen cups ? Any evidence of laying workers even ?
Can you do a test frame of young brood eggs less than three days old from another colony?
Failing that, in the past I have tried placing another protectively caged queen on the top of the frames and watched the reaction of the bees. If your colony is queenless, they will probably stream towards the caged queen fanning their wings. If your colony is queenright, they will almost certainly react aggressively towards the caged queen, tying to bite and sting. It will be hard to get the bees off the cage, as they won’t let go in a hurry.

 

[Millet]

Certainly a bit of a puzzle, but if its full of bees, like Enrico, my money would be on there being a queen in the hive. Your queen may have stopped laying because she’s no longer fertile or she is taking a brood break.
If there is plenty of honey and pollen, but a lack of any brood it can suggest that your hive might be queenless; but a queenless colony usually tries to replace its queen - any queen cups ? Any evidence of laying workers even ?
Can you do a test frame of young brood eggs less than three days old from another colony?
Failing that, in the past I have tried placing another protectively caged queen on the top of the frames and watched the reaction of the bees. If your colony is queenless, they will probably stream towards the caged queen fanning their wings. If your colony is queenright, they will almost certainly react aggressively towards the caged queen, tying to bite and sting. It will be hard to get the bees off the cage, as they won’t let go in a hurry.

I did spot two half drawn Queen cells but no eggs anywhere..i have had three laying worker colonies in the past so i know what to look for..regarding test frames and caged Queens it is far too early to mess about with those procedures and i certainly do not want to rob brood from my healthy colonies at this time of the year..thank you though for your suggestions.. .. i will just let it run it coarse and if it does turn into another laying worker colony it will be shook out on a nice warm day..