Very angry hive

[badger28]

2nd year of beekeeping and overwintered two hives. Today was our first fully inspection of the hives.

Hive 1 completely fine. Lovely.

Hive 2 was a nightmare. This hive was a captured swarm from hive 1. With a locally mated / natural queen...

We opened the hive, and they were angry from the off. Flying at my face, hands and boots. We did the inspection, but the bees were everywhere. They were stinging my boots and really not happy.

Once we closed them back up, and stepped away they followed us and were persistent for at least half hour. My neighbour was in his garden 30m away and they were buzzing round him (he got stung and ran inside).

They are on brood and a half, with a super on top and are doing brilliantly. But the aggression is clearly not ideal.

What are my options? We have a spare empty hive and 2 empty nucs.

One option is to requeen using a purchased queen.

Would I be able to split this hive into 2 nucs and requeen both? Then end up with 3 nice hives...

Any help will be appreciated. Even requeening will be a pain as I will need to find the existing queen in a very angry hive!

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[MartinL]

I'd bang them up after sundown today & move them the obligatory >3 miles+ before your neighbour gets himself down the garden centre for insecticide!

 

[Walrus]

Was hive 2 on the same stand as hive 1? If so maybe the vibrations from inspecting the first hive got the second hive defensive. If they are just plain evil then you need to kill the queen and scrape out any drone brood in that hive.

If you move the angry hive away from its current spot (say 10 yards away) then you will mostly be dealing with nurse bees, which makes it easier. Then you can give them a nice mated queen using push in cage, or split hive into nucs and add a queen to each split.

Michael Palmer uses a shaker box to help find the queen if she's not marked https://youtu.be/I7OsNW1XsQU

 

[Walrus]

I'd bang them up after sundown today & move them the obligatory >3 miles+ before your neighbour gets himself down the garden centre for insecticide!

 

[badger28]

Thanks for the replies.

I have just been out myself and stung again. They are at the bottom of a long garden in a quite secluded spot (my neighbour was unfortunately at the bottom of his garden earlier too) . So not a major risk to anyone else, but they definitely need to go.

My wife seems to have no problem, is this because they can now smell that I have been stung and keep attacking?

Am hoping they will calm down and forget about me by tomorrow otherwise it is going to be a difficult month until they get requeened and refreshed.

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[BeeSpace]

I had a similar problem with a hive I inspected about 10 days ago - allotment rather than garden based. I took a number of stings while trying to close up and had guard bees after me for about 20 mins. Went down the next day to try and finish up what I needed to do (didn't involve going into that hive) and the guards were after me before I was within 15' of the apiary. Very tricky morning.

I was concerned due to potential to upset plot neighbours and was immediately considering a re-queen as I won'thave that sort of shenanigans. However, I wandered down to them a couple of days later and could sit and watch them with no trouble, so they had calmed down. This hive of mine can be grumpy if temp is a bit low, so I think beekeeper error was the trigger for my trouble (as usual in my case!), exacerbated by alarm pheromone after the first sting. I'm going to inspect again on Monday and hope / expect them to be back to normal, but it not, I'll seek advice from local association folk and find somewhere to move them to until I re-queen.

Good luck with yours.

 

[Poly Hive]

They need moving which is why I keep banging on about having a 2nd site for precisely this situation.

Once moved requeen and to help find her use the 6 combs trick.

PH

 

[enrico]

I learnt the hard way many years ago that aggressive hives have to be sorted. There are many ways to do it but the queen HAS to go. Dress up bomb proof and go for it. Move the hive if you have to and put a spare hive in its place. Wait until many of the flying bees have returned to that replacement hive. Then bite the bullet and open the stroppy one. Move each frame as you check it for the queen into a new box. Keep going through till you find her. There are probably bad genes in the area so replace with a bought in Queen.
My wife and children never got stung but if I poked my nose out of the back door they would have me. I don't put up with it any more, they can make your life a misery. However....... There is a difference between bees that defend a hive and aggressive ones. The latter ar a big no no!
E

 

[madasafish]

Thanks for the replies.

I have just been out myself and stung again. They are at the bottom of a long garden in a quite secluded spot (my neighbour was unfortunately at the bottom of his garden earlier too) . So not a major risk to anyone else, but they definitely need to go.

My wife seems to have no problem, is this because they can now smell that I have been stung and keep attacking?

Am hoping they will calm down and forget about me by tomorrow otherwise it is going to be a difficult month until they get requeened and refreshed.

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If they stung your suit or gloves - if you wear the same set all the time- then the sting phemerone will be on them all. Wash suit and bin leather gloves.

But they probably recognise you as a shape and colour and smell.

Do you wear aftershave/strong deodorants? That will not help.

 

[MartinL]

Do you wear aftershave/strong deodorants? That will not help.

More importantly,
Does your neighbour have a memorable smell??

 

[badger28]

If they stung your suit or gloves - if you wear the same set all the time- then the sting phemerone will be on them all. Wash suit and bin leather gloves.



But they probably recognise you as a shape and colour and smell.



Do you wear aftershave/strong deodorants? That will not help.

They went for my boots mainly, and I did get stung on them last week. They have now been washed.

Suits will go in the wash too.

No strong smells on me, or neighbour.

Just spoken to a local Beek and will find out if we can get them moved, requeened and then moved back.

If not, I can move them 100m further down the garden for the time being (not ideal as 3 foot or 3 miles rule).

Will order a new Queen regardless.

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[MartinL]

I can move them 100m further down the garden for the time being

So you'll have all the flying angry bees returning to find their cosy home GONE!

That's not going to have much of a calming affect on them?

 

[Bakerbee]

oh dear i was in the same situation last year. my daughter said i looked like a white supremace running down the road in my suit to get away from them chasing me! i requeened with a calm buckfast reared in exmoor. i used a push in cage about 472hrs after i had squished the devil incarnet herself. now i can do inspection with no gloves, which by the way makes it so much more gentle for them as your dexterity without gloves is fab. use a spare box as suggested by others and move them so all your flyers return to old spot that willhalf your numbers and fingers crossed youll find the queen. there are some handy youtube posts that taught me how to find queens and once you get the hang of it its pretty easy. good luck though it was a big learning curve but at least i was learning.

 

[pargyle]

Take a step back ... whilst it is very unpleasant dealing with a hive that is overtly defensive this can be a passing phase.

If bees are like this when I open them up I tend to close them up, leave them to it for the day -walk away, no point in persisting - does you no good and the bees even less good.

Try again the following day but make sure you are bomb proof - wash suit - marigolds with new nitrile ones over them (they won't sting through two layers). Tape your wrists and boot tops. Rub some Olbas Oil on your hands, have both a water spray and your smoker going and to hand.

Start with them the following day ...gentle smoke (Don't overdo it - some bees actually react to smoke) give them a few minutes after smoking.

Then .. open gently, slowly and try and stay calm ... some bees seem to react to a keeper who is feeling uptight. Take things very slowly .. talk to them and tell them what you are doing (this is more for your benefit than the bees .. slows you down and calms your fears). Use the water spray over the top of the frames ... you can also use a cloth to cover the frames you are not handling.

If they are still then behaving like the bees from hell ... close them up and taks all the previous advice about moving and re-queening. Once .. you might just have picked a bad day ...twice - they have had their chance .. new genes required !

Good luck .. you cannot have agressive bees in a garden apiary.

 

[badger28]

Take a step back ... whilst it is very unpleasant dealing with a hive that is overtly defensive this can be a passing phase.

If bees are like this when I open them up I tend to close them up, leave them to it for the day -walk away, no point in persisting - does you no good and the bees even less good.

Try again the following day but make sure you are bomb proof - wash suit - marigolds with new nitrile ones over them (they won't sting through two layers). Tape your wrists and boot tops. Rub some Olbas Oil on your hands, have both a water spray and your smoker going and to hand.

Start with them the following day ...gentle smoke (Don't overdo it - some bees actually react to smoke) give them a few minutes after smoking.

Then .. open gently, slowly and try and stay calm ... some bees seem to react to a keeper who is feeling uptight. Take things very slowly .. talk to them and tell them what you are doing (this is more for your benefit than the bees .. slows you down and calms your fears). Use the water spray over the top of the frames ... you can also use a cloth to cover the frames you are not handling.

If they are still then behaving like the bees from hell ... close them up and taks all the previous advice about moving and re-queening. Once .. you might just have picked a bad day ...twice - they have had their chance .. new genes required !

Good luck .. you cannot have agressive bees in a garden apiary.

Thanks for the advice.

They have been transferred to an apiary 3 miles away. I will leave them there for a week to work out how to proceed.

My current plan is to move the entire apiary down to the bottom of the garden, and point them out into the fields at the end (garden is 150m long and acres of fields behind).

Then we will see what they are like in their next inspection. Hopefully it was a one off...but if not we will requeen.

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[Anduril]

Thanks for the advice.

They have been transferred to an apiary 3 miles away. I will leave them there for a week to work out how

Your best options are post 3 and/or 7

 

[beeno]

May I be so rude as to suggest that people wash themselves as well as the bee suits. Each person has his/her own odour some stronger than others!

 

[Anduril]

May I be so rude as to suggest that people wash themselves as well as the bee suits. Each person has his/her own odour some stronger than others!

Which shower gel do you recommend which doesn't make the bees angry for men and women

 

[Murox]

Which shower gel do you recommend which doesn't make the bees angry for men and women

Take your pick - QMP douche, Eau de Drone, Parfum de Nasonov, or QRP body lotion.

 

[Anduril]

Take your pick - QMP douche, Eau de Drone, Parfum de Nasonov, or QRP body lotion.

How much is that going to set me back LOL?