Varroa resistant bees in Gotland

[Finman]

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Quite big amount of resistant bees were imported to Swedish isle of Gotland.
It is now about 15 years when the experiment was funded.

After 10 years it was said, that hives stay now alive by themselves.

What means stay alive.....

http://www.imkervlaamseardennen.be/images/pdffolder/art-Locke-2011-bee-surviving-varroa.pdf

- COLONY SIZE

In the year 2008 it has told that colony size is under 10 000 bees. That amount covers 5 langstroth frames.
(2011 report)


In the report of year 2014 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099998

In the graph bee amount in the hives, in control and MR, it is 30 000 - 40 000 bees.

MR colonies have 40 000 bees, which amount occupyes easily 2 langtrsroth boxes in July.

During summer from July to August the colony size goes down under 10 000 bees.

- It means that colony occupyes in autumn 4 frames. All lived over winter.

- If that colony size makes a winter cluster, it is about 2 frames.

Normal hives grew douple size and were filled with mites. all died in winter.


In my country 2 frame winter cluster cannot survive. And if I keep it alive with electrict heating to nex spring, it is not able to start brood rearing.

Even if 2 frame colony starts brood rearing, when I give a frame of emerging brood in May, it grows normal hive not earlier that in Agust when all flowers are gone.

The colony size resembles the system of Russian bee in USA.

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Mite resistant colonies had smaller colonies, smaller amount of worker brood, and especially smaller amount of drone brood.




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[Finman]

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My summary: impossible to keep that size colonies, even if they stay alive. They cannot get honey yield, and they cannot survive over winter in our climate.

The colony growth resembles Russian bee colony
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[Fusion_power]

I can see your mind working on this finman and hope you will not give up. There is a different dynamic with mite resistant bees that permits them to achieve strong colonies for the spring flow, shrink rapidly through a summer dearth, then produce a crop from fall flows. I know that is not the pattern pf nectar flows in Finland. I suspect when we have bees with enough varroa resistance from multiple traits it will be possible to breed bees that maintain large summer populations and produce good crops of honey. Breeding so far has not achieved this result. I'm going to attempt to breed more productive varroa resistant bees. Give me 4 or 5 years and I'll tell you how it turns out. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking on my part, but at least I am doing something about varroa.

 

[Finman]

. Give me 4 or 5 years and I'll tell you how it turns out. .

Keep hurry. I am then 75 y old then, and I bet that one box hive is then suitable to me. Please, no dadant.

Please, take your time...

 

[Finman]

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A small bee colony does not do rapidly anything. That I have seen.

I can make 2 box hive in one week when I give one box emerging frames from other hives. But this hive do not forage anything, becauce foragers must be over 3-4 weeks old.

One hive stopped this way brood rearing because it did not get pollen to the hive. No one foraged it. Then I joined a swarm into the hive and it started to work normally.

.4 box hive is not productive.

 

[JWF]

Worth noting that in an island situation, both the parasite and the host face intense evolutionary pressure, as a result it's entirely possible that any coping strategies will not be effective for 'normal' varroa.

 

[Finman]

Worth noting that in an island situation, both the parasite and the host face intense evolutionary pressure, as a result it's entirely possible that any coping strategies will not be effective for 'normal' varroa.

Surely works on British Isles

 

[wightbees]

Not related to topic other than varroa but interesting read.

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/beyond-taktic/

 

[Finman]

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You can find the explanation of Gotland's bees from this doctor study 2012

http://pub.epsilon.slu.se/9036/1/locke_b_120912.pdf

page 32

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[charlievictorbravo]

Not related to topic other than varroa but interesting read.

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/beyond-taktic/

There's an eleven page thread on this here - http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38743

An interesting innovation that is bound to be scuppered by the regulations of the VMD - the Randy Oliver treatment is very expensive when Api-Bioxal is used.

CVB

 

[Fusion_power]

I've mentioned that there is a beekeeper in NZ who is trying to get to treatment free beekeeping. He has a few hundred colonies. He posted this comment on beesource.

Oldtimer: Right now I have some possible varroa resistant bees. They are queens I bought as varroa resistant queens, and I did alcohol washes at the site last week. All hives had varroa mites, except for the 3 hives that had been given these queens, those 3 had no mites. No other hives had no mites. I consider that significant. They are all on large cell by the way, and none of the other [stuff you are supposed to do to make bees treatment free] had been done on the hives.

The background is that a beekeeper with a couple of thousand colonies went through severe illness and most of his hives died over a period of a couple of years. When he was finally able to work them again, there were only a dozen or so colonies left alive. Those dozen showed excellent mite resistance. This is where Oldtimer got some mite resistant queens.

 

[Beefriendly]

Very unusual to find no mites at all. Do you thibnk it's real os someone taking the micturation?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Very unusual to find no mites at all. Do you thibnk it's real os someone taking the micturation?

Knowing OT (Alastair) I would take it as being truthful.

 

[Finman]

Knowing OT (Alastair) I would take it as being truthful.

It has happened finally !!!!

 

[Stiffy]

I've mentioned that there is a beekeeper in NZ who is trying to get to treatment free beekeeping. He has a few hundred colonies. He posted this comment on beesource.



The background is that a beekeeper with a couple of thousand colonies went through severe illness and most of his hives died over a period of a couple of years. When he was finally able to work them again, there were only a dozen or so colonies left alive. Those dozen showed excellent mite resistance. This is where Oldtimer got some mite resistant queens.

Interesting stuff, please keep us informed on how the NZ bees do or maybe post a link?
S

 

[Finman]

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IT is strange how easily Swedish scientific research jumped easily to NZ "have you heard" oldtimer story. Not yet to sex alleles, but...
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[oxnatbees]

I can see your mind working on this finman and hope you will not give up.

Well said. I may not agree with Finman's entire philosophy but when he speaks sense it is insightful and illuminating.

"There is a different dynamic with mite resistant bees that permits them to achieve strong colonies for the spring flow, shrink rapidly through a summer dearth, then produce a crop from fall flows. I know that is not the pattern pf nectar flows in Finland. I suspect when we have bees with enough varroa resistance from multiple traits it will be possible to breed bees that maintain large summer populations and produce good crops of honey. Breeding so far has not achieved this result. I'm going to attempt to breed more productive varroa resistant bees. Give me 4 or 5 years and I'll tell you how it turns out. Perhaps this is just wishful thinking on my part, but at least I am doing something about varroa."

There seem to be multiple populations developing varroa resistance throughout the UK, where our bees are closer to the Amm Finman may be able to use.

However one thing about our feral UK bees is they do tend towards smaller colony sizes, they are cautious in their breeding due to highly variable weather. We have lots of little feral nests in areas with adequate cavities. Not so good for honey crops, but farming has changed a lot since we grew all our food locally a century ago. There just isn't enough forage in one place. So desiring bees which can both survive harsh winters AND breed profusely is sort of self-contradictory. High populations in marginal climates is asking for trouble. Instead, the colonies specialise in supersedure, and only swarming every few years. It is less risky.

For hobbyists like me not so interested in honey, a colony which survives despite varroa is great. My impression is that in the last 2 years a tipping point has been reached among users of local bees, and few such beekeepers bother treating for varroa any more, though some do. The colonies struggle a bit but every year they are stronger and have fewer mites. I hear similar stories from Wales. This has been a very rapid change perhaps because the gene pool to draw on is much, much wider than in Gottland.

 

[Finman]

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When American beekeepers do not bother treat mites any more, half of hives die annually.

And now American Apostles try to teach same to European beekeepers.

God helps only those who help themselves.
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No university research support idea that hives survive without varroa treatment, but stories and faith among hobby guys continue living.

 

[Hunajavelho]

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When American beekeepers do not bother treat mites any more, half of hives die annually.

And now American Apostles try to teach same to European beekeepers.

God helps only those who help themselves.
.

No university research support idea that hives survive without varroa treatment, but stories and faith among hobby guys continue living.

Amen.

 

[Finman]

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"There is a different dynamic with mite resistant bees that permits them to achieve strong colonies for the spring flow,

shrink rapidly through a summer dearth, then produce a crop from fall flows.

I know that is not the pattern pf nectar flows in Finland. .

Gotland bee story tells very important thing. The colonies are too small to keep as productive hives. It is same with US Russian bees. And what ever the climate, small colonies allways take its own time to build up to foraging stage.

First, there is no "Finland nectar pattern". Every place has its own plants. You move only 5 kilometres and vegetation is suitable to bees, or not suitable. There are dry cliffs, sand areas, bogs, dark woods and corn fields without weeds. To get good yield pastures must be inside 1 km radius.

Everything is based on "moving hives to pastures", because pastures do not move to your hives.


If you want take advantage from spring flow, you must have a huge winter cluster alive after winter.


If you want late flow, your hives must be in condition through the summer.


Like Fusion Power, he has 6 weeks early flow. When Fusion has small nuc like colonies after winter, the build up time is 3 months to small , 4 frame colonies.

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And if you have a hive, which can store nectar 40 kg, then it cannot store 100 kg. It is so simple.
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