Varroa Alert

[Murox]

Is it ok to tolerate a higher drop at this time of year as the 'brooded' mites will be very low or non existant?
BIAB

Seems to me that you absolutely want to create conditions at this time of year that ensure a high mite mortality.

 

[GloryBee]

Oxalic acid works at fullpower for about 3 days then tapers off. This makes the 24hr drop basically equal to the number of phoretic mites.
After that its catching the emerging mites. So unless you know they are broodless or how much brood there is its tricky to predict from drops

Unless one is treating every week , then it has to be accepted numbers will ebb and flow. Trying for a 100% kill rate isn't going to occur so just a case of keeping numbers low as possible.

I expect 90% of mine to be at zero mites after a double winter vape. A third treatment a few years ago confirmed this.

 

[GloryBee]

Seems to me that you absolutely want to create conditions at this time of year that ensure a high mite mortality.

Exactly, to the point that its worth cracking open a few to confirm they are broodless . If you pick a still day the only harm you do is chilling brood that you want dead anyway.

 

[The Poot]

Exactly, to the point that its worth cracking open a few to confirm they are broodless . If you pick a still day the only harm you do is chilling brood that you want dead anyway.

Why would you want the brood dead?

 

[Apple]

Why would you want the brood dead?

Because the books say so!

 

[Murox]

Exactly, to the point that its worth cracking open a few to confirm they are broodless . If you pick a still day the only harm you do is chilling brood that you want dead anyway.

NO. I was thinking more along the lines of OA vaporisation or perhaps trickling. There is nothing to be gained by stressing a colony just to see if they are actually brood-less at this time of the year when it is well documented that brood production falls to virtually zero around about now. I don't follow your train of thought at all wanting to kill brood and further stressing a colony at this time.

 

[Swarm]

Seems to be a theme developing who can open the hives up latest in the year . Believing you can achieve zero mites is a bit of a pipe dream IMO.

 

[GloryBee]

A double vapour treatment a week apart when broodless is a 100% mite kill almost every time( but lets say it isnt and a single mite remains)
Given the doubling of mite populations normally, the difference between leaving 1 mite and 30 mites is about 6 months more were your colonies remain below treatment threshold. If you can't see the value in that, take it up with LASI, theyre the ones who recommend it, they and other researchers have far more experience of opening colonies through winter than any of you too scared to have ever tried

 

[Apple]

A double vapour treatment a week apart when broodless is a 100% mite kill almost every time( but lets say it isnt and a single mite remains)
Given the doubling of mite populations normally, the difference between leaving 1 mite and 30 mites is about 6 months more were your colonies remain below treatment threshold. If you can't see the value in that, take it up with LASI, theyre the ones who recommend it, they and other researchers have far more experience of opening colonies through winter than any of you too scared to have ever tried

What sort of workforce of experienced beekeepers do you employ.. to open up and inspect 200 + colonies for brood at this time in the winter?

Build up does not begin till after old twelfth night in these parts, in Epithamy, so. between then and Candlemass ( Ground hog day) is the time to get out the Sublimox and Vaping hoods... and bring the pesky AbbeyMites down!

Nadelik Lowen

 

[GloryBee]

What sort of workforce of experienced beekeepers do you employ.. to open up and inspect 200 + colonies for brood at this time in the winter?

Build up does not begin till after old twelfth night in these parts, in Epithamy, so. between then and Candlemass ( Ground hog day) is the time to get out the Sublimox and Vaping hoods... and bring the pesky AbbeyMites down!

Nadelik Lowen

Just me and i dont open them, simply check the detritus for cappings open and cull the brood in those with brood.
just 1 sister of each line per apiary really needs checking. Lines with brood can also revert to 4 treatments at 5 day intervals if im pushed for time.. I and virtually every other beekeeper i know who observes these things locally has had brood in that period at least 3 out of the last 5 years.

 

[Apple]

Just me and i dont open them all just 1 sister of each line per apiary. Lines with brood revert to 4 treatments at 5 day intervals

I must be getting old... or wise!
Nadelik Lowen

 

[Murox]

I am sure that the Laboratory of Apiculture and Social Insects (LASI) at the University of Sussex studies multiple facets of the honey bee. That is after all what they do, research and experiment. OA vapourization at times of broodlessness is indeed widley recommend and is most effective.

@GloryBee feel free to experiment on your bees by “cracking open a few to confirm they are broodless . If you pick a still day the only harm you do is chilling brood that you want dead anyway.”

 

[gmonag]

Killing brood to help the bees through winter? Might be simpler just to apply leeches.

 

[GloryBee]

I must be getting old... or wise!
Nadelik Lowen

To be fair you must really struggle in summer if you can't find the time to pulk 1-3 frames from a hive in winter.

 

[GloryBee]

Killing brood to help the bees through winter? Might be simpler just to apply leeches.

In short yes, brood breaks are well documented varroa control methods.
The bonus in winter is you are talking about a brood nest the size of a tangerine( who's loss is pretty much meaningless to the colony)on frames of known location because you checked the detritus/cappings.
Hives are open no longer than they are when trickling oxalic.

 

[Swarm]

A double vapour treatment a week apart when broodless is a 100% mite kill almost every time( but lets say it isnt and a single mite remains)
Given the doubling of mite populations normally, the difference between leaving 1 mite and 30 mites is about 6 months more were your colonies remain below treatment threshold. If you can't see the value in that, take it up with LASI, theyre the ones who recommend it, they and other researchers have far more experience of opening colonies through winter than any of you too scared to have ever tried

Yep, absolutely terrified

 

[Apple]

To be fair you must really struggle in summer if you can't find the time to pulk 1-3 frames from a hive in winter.

In these parts we just turn a tap on the back of the hive and collect the liquid gold.... as with SWARM terrified to open hives!

Nadelik Lowen

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I and virtually every other beekeeper i know who observes these things locally has had brood in that period at least 3 out of the last 5 years.

Would help us if we know where 'local' is for you.
For all we know you could be up on the isle of the mad at the top of Wales.

 

[Ian123]

Just a quick insight to hives in Surrey atm I’ve just checked 4 Nucs and a dbl brood chamber colony. 1 nuc no brood/eggs 2 Nucs small patch of eggs about orange size 1 queen laying in front of me. 1 nuc sealed brood and eggs. The larger colony has about a frame of bias spread over 2.Bees are out in force in the drizzle and when the suns out it’s almost warm. Ian

 

[beeno]

Thanks Mr (Madasa) Fish, the weathers been much the same in Norfolk, maybe a little better in that we have seen some sun but theres been no flying worth mentioning for at least two weeks now so I don't think picking up mites while robbing is the issue. Similarly I doubt there's much brood here either, they are pretty well clustered judging by the debris field on the boards and looking through the poly crownboards I can see five or six seams of bees biased to one side of the box ( the same side on all three hives...? )
Nick

Apparently, beekeepers in the US found vaporizing unsatisfactory when the bees were tightly clustered. The vapour is not pressurised and therefore does not penetrate the cluster effectively enough. So that may be the issue. I have got a couple of hives with the brood nest to one side facing west as it happens.