Understanding behaviour

[Beekeeper Jason]

Hi and welcome to December everyone!
Could somebody answer me a question, please?
For the last two months, I’ve been trying to get some fondant placed in my small hive to see my bees through the winter.
This is my first year and I only have the one hive, the trouble is the weather’s been so bad (either cold or rainy) and yesterday was the very first day the temperature and whether or suitable.
I managed to get a block of fondant with a small hole in the packaging into the top of the hive and added a bit of insulation above that before the cover was replaced.
All seemed fine the bees were a bit feisty but close it all up ok.
We have even a nicer day today, here in North Yorkshire, sunny and after a dump start now dry.
I took this video of the hive entrance just this morning. There’s a lot of activity but the bees don’t seem to be going anywhere just flying around the front of the hive and then in and out is this normal?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

looks like perfectly normal orientation flights to me.
That looks like a nuc to me. When did you get it, and what setup do you have?

 

[JamezF]

That looks like a nuc to me.

I think it might just be foreshortening of the image because of the camera angle, but it's very hard to tell.

James

 

[Beekeeper Jason]

Started off with a National hive broodbox into which I transferred a nuc from a local beekeeper friend. That was about mid July. Added a super on top which the bees drew out the comb in most of the frames, but only managed limited stores.
The brood chamber had quite a few frames of honey and nectar.
Because I wanted to add the fondant as quickly as possible and to keep the hive open for the shortest time, when I opened up yesterday, after some advice from my friend, I swapped the super to underneath the brood box and put the new super without frames onto the top of the brood box. I laid a piece of plastic bag with a hole in on top of the frames and the fondant on top of that, then a piece of insulation then the crown board and finally the top cover.
So now the brood box is sandwiched between two supers effectively.
Hopefully I have done the right thing?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think it might just be foreshortening of the image because of the camera angle, but it's very hard to tell.

James

you're right - Nucs are all cold way - this one is set warm way

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

after some advice from my friend, I swapped the super to underneath the brood box

way too late to nadir a super of stores - I'm afraid he gave you poor advice there.

 

[Beekeeper Jason]

Suppose all I can do now is leave them alone and hope they make it through? Don’t want to mess them about any more.

 

[Curly green finger's]

way too late to nadir a super of stores - I'm afraid he gave you poor advice there.

Definitely to late for a nadir, how many seams of bees was there, you say quite a few frames of stores in the super how many were capped?
Sounds like you should of nadired in September early October at the latest and then assessed there weight adding fondant either directly onto the top bars with a qx and eke /super. @Beekeeper Jason

 

[BernardBlack]

Hi and welcome to December everyone!
Could somebody answer me a question, please?
For the last two months, I’ve been trying to get some fondant placed in my small hive to see my bees through the winter.
This is my first year and I only have the one hive, the trouble is the weather’s been so bad (either cold or rainy) and yesterday was the very first day the temperature and whether or suitable.
I managed to get a block of fondant with a small hole in the packaging into the top of the hive and added a bit of insulation above that before the cover was replaced.
All seemed fine the bees were a bit feisty but close it all up ok.
We have even a nicer day today, here in North Yorkshire, sunny and after a dump start now dry.
I took this video of the hive entrance just this morning. There’s a lot of activity but the bees don’t seem to be going anywhere just flying around the front of the hive and then in and out is this normal?

No mouse guard fitted?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

no need with an entrance that size

 

[Sutty]

Suppose all I can do now is leave them alone and hope they make it through? Don’t want to mess them about any more.

I'd put them back the original way around and put the fondant on top of the part filled super. The bees will naturally move up through their stores whilst in cluster and end up next to the fondant. In the meantime when it's warmer they may store it where they want it.
It's a very quick manipulation.

 

[BernardBlack]

no need with an entrance that size

You think?

I have guards on all mine with similar sized entrances

 

[Sutty]

This is interesting


Looks like about 15mm is the limit for mice, though smaller in one dimension might be possible.

 

[JamezF]

As far as I'm aware it's generally considered that an entrance will be "mouse proof" and not require guards if it is no more than 8mm "high" (mine are actually 8mm deep, as I use UFEs). The entrance in the video looks like it is in that kind of ballpark to me.

Prior to switching to UFEs I used similar size entrances for Winter and never had a problem with mice except when I had neglected to put the necessary entrance block in.

James

 

[BernardBlack]

The only evidence I seen with mice was a few years ago. I was using the mouse guards with the arches for the bees to come and go.

The mouse obviously wasn’t able to enter, but I noticed teeth marks in the entrance block, where the arches were.

I can’t seem to buy the arch guards recently, so I’ve had to use the ones with the circular holes, which are a bit bigger than the arched holes. I dont like these as much, as they’re harder to attach. They look a lot bigger too, but don’t think they’re bigger than 14mm.

Touch wood, I haven’t had any get into a hive. A few slugs have though.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You think?

yes, managed loads of hives with that kind of entrance and never wasted time or money installing mouse guards, the association apiary had a high level of mouse activity, never a problem

I have guards on all mine with similar sized entrances

when you use mouse guards of any kind you should first remove the entrance block completely so there is less risk of dead bees and debris totally blocking the entrance.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

You think?

I have guards on all mine with similar sized entrances

I've NEVER had mouse guards. Only ever seen one mouse near one hive which had a piece of board temporarily leaning against the landing strip to discourage under flying. Said mouse was in the process of dying from stinging by guards. I removed the board and left the mouse as protein for the chickens.

 

[Colinkemp]

The only evidence I seen with mice was a few years ago. I was using the mouse guards with the arches for the bees to come and go.

The mouse obviously wasn’t able to enter, but I noticed teeth marks in the entrance block, where the arches were.

I can’t seem to buy the arch guards recently, so I’ve had to use the ones with the circular holes, which are a bit bigger than the arched holes. I dont like these as much, as they’re harder to attach. They look a lot bigger too, but don’t think they’re bigger than 14mm.

Touch wood, I haven’t had any get into a hive. A few slugs have though.

I bought some of theses, quite well made.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/146020949931

 

[Macbear]

yes, managed loads of hives with that kind of entrance and never wasted time or money installing mouse guards, the association apiary had a high level of mouse activity, never a problem

when you use mouse guards of any kind you should first remove the entrance block completely so there is less risk of dead bees and debris totally blocking the entrance.

Years ago I used mouse guards as allotments tend to suffer with rodents. Agreed - they should be used without entrance reducers. It was a regular job to unpin the guard and use it to rake out any dead - sometimes none, rarely any quantity. Now I use the smallest size entrance [20mm x 8mm] from September to early April and even during the season have a reducer in place - albeit a much wider one. The bees don't seem to have any problems with that arrangement.
I did have thoughts about the wisdom of keeping the reducer in place at times of peak flow. Predation [yes, there were even bee-eater birds nesting a couple of miles away, wasps, hornets - a rarity], but only saw a few wasps predating in the later summer. Thankfully, no bee-eaters were seen near my apiary. Queuing for passage - not really a problem. Defence against intruders - I've had no problem with wax moth or rodents since regulating the entrance: that may be coincidence, but I'm without evidence to the contrary. I suspect guard bees being more focused on a restricted entrance has benefits.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I've NEVER had mouse guards. Only ever seen one mouse near one hive which had a piece of board temporarily leaning against the landing strip to discourage under flying. Said mouse was in the process of dying from stinging by guards. I removed the board and left the mouse as protein for the chickens.

Same as me I’ve never used them - I’ve only had mice problems when I used a home made entrance block which was cut in a triangle and the hive was very low to the ground, so folks keep your wintering colony’s of the floor minimum 12-18inches