Two queens

[maddydog]

Learned that from you 4 years ago. Works a treat and so much easier..Not had any problems with it. Thanks.

 

[Into the lions den]

I assume it's dreecht in Scotland, but even so. This is the post I have always used as reference. https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=313288&postcount=14

That's the one.

We know what we are doing so can get away with more than this but you can get three frames of foundation drawn dead easily in autumn 9even five...we have done up to 8 in one go but that's not so simple).

Take out the combs you wish to replace (can be several reasons for this) and shake any bees off and set aside. In the MIDDLE of the colony insert the bars of new foundation, never two together, so interspersed with the brood bars like (O for old N for new) OOONONONOOO....assuming 11 frames.

Feed the bees a full winter feed (can be done all at once or a little at a time) and check what has happened to the foundation a few days later. In Sept it is normally perfectly drawn and there will be a lot of eggs and young larvae in the centre of the combs. In October it might have less or no brood.

The big advantage of autumn comb replacement is that they are always perfect. There is no drone rearing imperative at that time of year so the combs are drawn 100% worker.

Get this one in any text book?

However this is serious thread drift from the original topic, maybe the moderator might like to have a tinker?

 

[thorn]

I found Peggy when I inspected today. She’s looking old and tired, but hanging on in there. Last week she and her successor were on the same frame, but the daughter’s busy laying in every frame.
I’ll be sorry when she’s no more.

 

[thorn]

She’s still hanging on in there. I’ve just AS’d the colony, and she’s with the brood, so she’ll have her granddaughter to contend with shortly.

 

[Bakerbee]

Lions den. Thankyou for the comb replacement advice. I shall take that on board and wished i had done it that way last sept. I got into a nasty pickle mid bailey comb change eatlier this spring. Must of missed swarm cells. Attempted Swarm. one box empty of bias so did AS gave that box the queen left other to raise own.....long story short now awaiting new queen in post of hoplessly q- hive.Hoping they dont go laying worker before arrival on wed. Alot of lessons learnt for a new beek. But i shall try your way in future. Thank you.

 

[Eyeman]

That's the one.

We know what we are doing so can get away with more than this but you can get three frames of foundation drawn dead easily in autumn 9even five...we have done up to 8 in one go but that's not so simple).

Take out the combs you wish to replace (can be several reasons for this) and shake any bees off and set aside. In the MIDDLE of the colony insert the bars of new foundation, never two together, so interspersed with the brood bars like (O for old N for new) OOONONONOOO....assuming 11 frames.

Feed the bees a full winter feed (can be done all at once or a little at a time) and check what has happened to the foundation a few days later. In Sept it is normally perfectly drawn and there will be a lot of eggs and young larvae in the centre of the combs. In October it might have less or no brood.

The big advantage of autumn comb replacement is that they are always perfect. There is no drone rearing imperative at that time of year so the combs are drawn 100% worker.

Get this one in any text book?

However this is serious thread drift from the original topic, maybe the moderator might like to have a tinker?

September might be a good time to get your foundationless comb with starter strips drawn if drone cells are few and far between. I've tended to rely earlier in the season on swarms and mating nucs to drawn my foundationless frames out. Anyone got any experience with foundationless in Autumn?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Had quite a few colonies with mother and daughter coexisting over the last winter,first inspection this spring the old queens (some which I was expecting to be superseded last September) were there happily laying, then the next inspection - a new unmarked queen in each.

 

[Millet]

Had quite a few colonies with mother and daughter coexisting over the last winter,first inspection this spring the old queens (some which I was expecting to be superseded last September) were there happily laying, then the next inspection - a new unmarked queen in each.

I am not having a pop but how do you know which Queen was laying.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am not having a pop but how do you know which Queen was laying.

Quite easy really - saw her do it, and at that point was unaware there was another in there.

 

[Millet]

Quite easy really - saw her do it, and at that point was unaware there was another in there.

The other Queen might also have been laying in other frames out of your sight.. one of many things in this hobby that amazes me and confuses me even more.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The other Queen might also have been laying in other frames out of your sight

That goes without saying - if she hadn't mated successfully and was laying in the autumn, the bees would have dealt with her. the whole point of perfect supersedure probably. double laying in spring for a quick buildup then the old queen gets it.

 

[Millet]

That goes without saying - if she hadn't mated successfully and was laying in the autumn, the bees would have dealt with her. the whole point of perfect supersedure probably. double laying in spring for a quick buildup then the old queen gets it.

 

[TooBee...]

Its not at all an unusual situation...have even once seen 3 generations..all there at the same time....(We do not kill either queen when reuniting unless there is a good reason to be sure one does not continue, allowing nature to take its course.)

Ok this blows my mind!

My (somewhat limited it now appears) understanding is that IF you allow TWO Queens in the same hive, when they find each other they will fight to the death. With the possibility of both of them getting killed or the winner being badly injured, or the older and less productive = less desirable? getting a lucky sting in...

IF a duel to the death doesn't occur, then I would have thought that the presence of the Old Queen could likely cause a swarm...

I'm guessing when you rear a Queen in a Mating Nuc, and decide to re-Queen a hive (as the Old Queen is err Old and not as productive) you do not leave the Old Queen in the hive with the newly added Queen.

As you can tell from above I am completely scratching my head over this