Transferring nucleus to 14x12 brood box

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hi all,

Thinking ahead to getting my first colony next year, my supplier provides a nucleus on National standard brood frames. My brood box is a 14x12.

How do I go about making the transition?
And my supplier offers both 5 or 11 frames; any thoughts?

Thanks for your advice.

 

[victor meldrew]

Hi all,

Thinking ahead to getting my first colony next year, my supplier provides a nucleus on National standard brood frames. My brood box is a 14x12.

How do I go about making the transition?
And my supplier offers both 5 or 11 frames; any thoughts?

Thanks for your advice.

No problem at all, simply install your standard nuc into a 14x12 box , add a couple of frames 14x12 either side and a division board either side !
As the colony expands (they will draw the standard frames down to level of 14x12s) into the 14x12s add further frames of foundation !
The original frames can be replaced as time goes on !
If you are using poly hives then placing the nuc to one side of the b.b speeds up the removal of the standard frames as the standard method of removing frames is to work them to one side , this of course you have done from the onset .
Care must be taken when inspecting the standard frames as the drawn extensions are prone to becoming detached from the bottom of the frame .
Just make sure you keep the frames vertical
VM

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Wow!

Thanks VM.

Damned clever these bees by the sound of it.
(And from listening in on the forum (not in the alleged RAB way I hasten to add!) its the beekeepers who seem to make it complicated.)

(Ok, ok. You can all laugh next year when I'm panicking!)

 

[Skyhook]

What Vic said sounds about right. The only thing I would add is- all the people who say that the queen loves new comb hadn't met my queens. I practically had to wrestle the old frames off her! In the end I had to put them above a QE to emerge as they had drawn new frames , but she just kept re-laying the few old ones.

 

[rae]

Care must be taken when inspecting the standard frames as the drawn extensions are prone to becoming detached from the bottom of the frame .

And depending on how awkward your bees are, they may create structures at the bottom that mean frames are impossible to remove.

If you have any drawn comb available, I'd start mixing it into the 5 central frames as fast as possible. Nat frames in amongst 14x12s are fine on their own. 5 nat frames together in a 14x12 box can lead to much hilarity when inspecting.

 

[victor meldrew]

What Vic said sounds about right. The only thing I would add is- all the people who say that the queen loves new comb hadn't met my queens. I practically had to wrestle the old frames off her! In the end I had to put them above a QE to emerge as they had drawn new frames , but she just kept re-laying the few old ones.

I would suggest a scrub Queen! A Good Queen would have a laying rate that itself would ensure the brood nest expanded .
I you insist she was a good queen, then the forage was poor at the time and expansion wasn't on offer . Radical manipulations would have hindered rather than helped in my opinion?
VM

 

[oliver90owner]

It may depend on the time of the year, of course.

Very early on, one can simply place an 'unchewable' item under the deeps and they will have to expand onto the extra-deeps. Plenty of time to achieve a full box of 14 x 12 frames.

One can fit frame extenders to make the deeps into 14x 12s. (never done it, never tried, never seen it, and it seems a waste of money).

You can do as VM suggests, but the wild comb may be a nuisance (I have done it this way before). I would start them against a side wall, so only one division board required. minor detail.

Eleven frames are more expensive, but should return a good crop in the first season - depending on timing, of course. But you will need to sacrifice (eventually) a full box of frames. Bearing in mind, of course, that foundation is going to be changed every two or three years in the brood. It may be into it's second season by the time you see it and changing to all new at the beginning of 2013 has a cost (but could be 'shook swarmed' if you would want to do that sort of frame change). Decide whether you date frames and work some out of the brood area each year or change the lot as in a Bailey frame change (or the shook swarm). Choices, choices!

A five frame nuc can provide a good crop if nurtured in the correct way and in a good year, but needs a bit of luck, maybe, for a beginner and a little skill so as not to produce a lot of sugar syrup as crop!

I have done it both as VM says, and placing a box under the deeps.

This last year, I wanted a few extra 14 x 12s drawn and used a couple boxes as supers. Extraction was fun, and for other reasons, I did not finish up with as many frames as I expected, but it is a thought for anyone starting in a hurry and with OSR available at the right time (and a suitable extractor for 14 x 12 frames!). I doubt you will be able to take advantage of that method, as a beginner.

The final method may also be appropriate, depending on how your bees are delivered. If in a robust, useable nuc, or in a full box, you could simply stick it (the nuc) over, or a full box of deeps under a brood and allow the bees to transfer as comb is built, eventually screening the queen into the 14 x 12 and removing the deep (nuc or brood box) three weeks after putting in a queen excluder.

So, lots of choices. Might depend on circumstance and time.

RAB

 

[Davelin]

I was in the same situation last year. I made some home made extensions from cut down side bars and a bit of strip wood for a top bar and cut to size foundation. I then screwed a metal repair strip to each side bar and left it sticking up at each end.

My first task on receiving my nucs was to place each frame from the nuc onto an extension bit, screw the two together and transfer to my deep box.

Made the pulse race a bit as I was doing it, but has worked very well. All the frames were drawn out and filled with brood. I have now worked these frames to the outside of the box and will replace them in the spring.

I got 6 frame nucs and gradually filled the rest of the box with 14x12 foundation

 

[Skyhook]

What Vic said sounds about right. The only thing I would add is- all the people who say that the queen loves new comb hadn't met my queens. I practically had to wrestle the old frames off her! In the end I had to put them above a QE to emerge as they had drawn new frames , but she just kept re-laying the few old ones.

I would suggest a scrub Queen! A Good Queen would have a laying rate that itself would ensure the brood nest expanded .
I you insist she was a good queen, then the forage was poor at the time and expansion wasn't on offer . Radical manipulations would have hindered rather than helped in my opinion?
VM

My point was that I have often heard the view expressed that queens PREFER new clean comb' whereas mine, faced with the option, blatantly didn't.

 

[Hughesie]

Buy or make a national brood box , less hassle.

 

[Skyhook]

Buy or make a national brood box , less hassle.

But 30% less space.

Ish.

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