Tips on driving bees (by pounding the hive with sticks)

[ugcheleuce]

Hello everyone

I have a little problem with one of my hives that may require me to drive bees for the first time.

Problem:

My hive consists of two brood boxes (and some honey supers), but only the top brood box has frames, and the combs extend almost entirely into the bottom box. I want to cut off the bottom comb (so that I end up with neat and tidy frames) but I don't want to lose all those bees.

[I know that I'll lose a lot of brood in the process, but that's unavoidable -- my priority now is to make the hive inspectable again. I can try to salvage the comb at least, by freezing it and putting it into empty frames later, but that is not my primary goal either.]

What's more, the hives are about 2 feet off the ground. Due to the size of those combs and the height of the hive I don't think I'll be successful in shaking off the bees back into the hive (even if I remove the supers).

[The queen is not marked and I may not be able to find her. If she dies, it will be unfortunate but not the end of the world.]

I only know about driving bees in theory, so let me share my thoughts with you and you can tell me which is the lesser hairbrained idea.

Options:

Option 1 is to take off the supers, put an empty box on top of the two brood boxes (with the lid on), and then drive the bees up into the hive by pounding the bottom box. Then separate the two brood boxes from each other and raise the upper boxes with pegs, and then use a wire to cut the comb. Some of the cut combs will not stick to the hive walls and will drop down onto the bottom board.

I'm not confident that the bees will leave the comb in the bottom box, even if it is pounded, because it contains a lot of brood. And because the frames in the upper box will have lifted upwards, the brace comb in the bottom box will no longer be fully attached to the walls, which means that the comb might sag irregularly and crush many of the bees (including, possibly, the queen).

Option 2 is to remove the supers, and then lift out the frames one by one, and cut off the comb, and put the cut-off comb into an empty hive nearby, taking care not to crush bees between the combs (there will be lots of bees on the cut comb).

I can create an improvised "skep" by attaching a dark towel to the top of an empty brood box, using elastic bands. I then place the skep on top of the box that has the cut-off combs in it (at an angle, so that light enters into the bottom box), and then I drive the bees into the towelled brood box, and then carry that box to the original hive and shake them off in one swift bang.

Questions:

Which of these options do you think will be most successful? Am I right that the bees will be very hesitant to leave the bottom box in option 1, due to the fact that they'll have to leave brood behind? Have you ever cut comb with a wire, as in option 1, and is it as easy as it looks in my imagination?

(Option 3 is to not drive the bees but try to shake them off into a pillow case, with the help of two colleagues in thick armour. I know from experience that can't accurately shake off bees from combs of this size into a bucket -- most bees will end up next to it.)

(Option 4 is to use option 1 without driving any of the bees, and *hope* that the comb remains roughly in place, and then use the bottom box with whatever bees are in it as a Warre starter, heh-heh... except that there won't be enough bees in it for all that brood by the time night falls.)

Thanks
Samuel

 

[Tom Bick]

Option 4 remove the supers treat for Varroa feed if they need it and leave well alone until the spring when the bees will be high up in the top box and the lower comb will almost certainly be empty and easily removed.

 

[ugcheleuce]

Remove the supers, treat for Varroa, feed if they need it, and leave well alone until the spring when the bees will be high up in the top box and the lower comb will almost certainly be empty and easily removed.

I wouldn't mind if the bees use their own honey as winter food, instead of sugar water. With that in mind, do you still say that I must remove all the supers, or would you say "leave one of the supers on the hive"?

I've never actually overwintered bees, and I'm a bit concerned that if I remove all the supers, the bees won't have any place to put their winter stores. Or will the queen naturally start laying fewer eggs and leave more room for nectar being stored?

 

[Tom Bick]

Providing the bees have room and I would say yours do as they are on double brood then remove the supers you can then treat for Varroa. After treatment you can then decide if you want to give the bees back some of their honey but this is often best placed under the brood box. Placing the super under the brood box as to over pretty much guarantees you won't have any stores or more importantly brood in the super come the spring.
Your problem with placing a super under your broods is the comb in the lower brood box probably does not extend down to the bottom of the box and a large gap from full super to bottom of comb may be problematic for the bees. You can decide to give them a super over the broods without a queen excluder but it will be full of bees and brood come the spring, not the worst problem to have but a problem nevertheless.
I think given that you want to sort this hive out and the time of year I would remove the supers, assess the level of stores in the hive and feed the bees when appropriate to get them through the winter and then sort them out.

Just to add yes the queen is reducing the brood nest and the bees will back fill the comb with winter stores.