Thorn(e)'s 14x12 frames

[Hombre]

Frequently when buying Standard National frames we specify a T1 or T2 topbar, but Thorn(e) sells just 14x12 and we assume that from year to year we accept that the product is the same, yet frames bought in December 2010 appear to have T2 topbars and in December 2011 T1 topbars.

This is more than a little like the chocolate manufacturers resizing your favourite snack without telling you about it. Hmmmmm.

Interestingly the price didn't go down or stay the same of course.

A). Did anyone else particularly notice?
B). Does anyone feel that this somewhat underhand and that the top bar should have been stated if it was not the same as before, even if that point wasn't explicitly mentioned?

 

[RoseCottage]

And not to hijack the thread...but does anyone else also find it incredibly hard to get foundation to stay straight and true in a 14*12 frame?
Sam

 

[region2]

What's the difference between T1 and T2?

R2

 

[Heather]

And not to hijack the thread...but does anyone else also find it incredibly hard to get foundation to stay straight and true in a 14*12 frame?
Sam

Oh YES
Last year the foundation didn't quite reach both sides and the base - was told it was the heat when processed - very annoying

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Oh YES
Last year the foundation didn't quite reach both sides and the base - was told it was the heat when processed - very annoying

The foundation I got from KBS was too wide for the frames - I've started trying to trim it to lessen the bulge. As its the identical width to a DN, and the length was fine, you have to wonder about the real reason for manufacturers getting it wrong.

 

[Skyhook]

The foundation I got from KBS was too wide for the frames - I've started trying to trim it to lessen the bulge. As its the identical width to a DN, and the length was fine, you have to wonder about the real reason for manufacturers getting it wrong.

Same here. I found I had to trim a triangle off one side, as one side is square and one isn't.

 

[taff..]

Frequently when buying Standard National frames we specify a T1 or T2 topbar, but Thorn(e) sells just 14x12 and we assume that from year to year we accept that the product is the same, yet frames bought in December 2010 appear to have T2 topbars and in December 2011 T1 topbars.

This is more than a little like the chocolate manufacturers resizing your favourite snack without telling you about it. Hmmmmm.

Interestingly the price didn't go down or stay the same of course.

A). Did anyone else particularly notice?
B). Does anyone feel that this somewhat underhand and that the top bar should have been stated if it was not the same as before, even if that point wasn't explicitly mentioned?

what difference does it make?

surely the dimension of the top bar is of no consequence with hoffman sidebars

 

[Hebeegeebee]

The idea of wider top bars is that there is too little space in which the bees can create brace comb.

The only 14 x 12's I have are with the wider top bars. However I now have some Manley bottom bars after the wrong sized bottom bars were originally sent for SN1 and DN4 frames! I suppose they'll do.

 

[Hombre]

Region 2, 6mm is the difference See here for the detail T1=22mm and T2=28mm. Sturdier top bar.

Taf, What difference does it make? If you found that you bought what you thought was the exact same model of car from your local dealer six months after buying the first one and found that they had replaced the 2.0L engine with a 1.8L version, would you feel that the practice was questionable and perhaps deserved to know that the spec had been changed?

Could it be that I'm actually paying a premium for a slightly lighter box of frames? If the frames had ever been offered with an alternative top bar then I wouldn't expect the vendor to be offering anything different, but they had always been sold as 14x12 frames and that was taken to mean with a T2 top bar, by custom as that is how they had been sold previously.

Perhaps I should ask the difference between the cost of their T1 and T2 14x12 frames as they have obviously now provided both. They weren't seconds either, so they weren't a cost saving option.

I get the impression that no one actually cares and that's why now we should all be paying premium prices established for 14x12 frames with the thinner top bar. Don't say that no one mentioned it here at least.

 

[region2]

Link doesn't work. So what's the actual difference?

R2

 

[Hombre]

Region 2, 6mm is the difference, T1=22mm and T2=28mm. A sturdier top bar.

Google "Dave Cushman frame designations". the Dave - Cushman.net URL is blocked by the forum. Admin has been practicing his regex skills again . . . an unfortunate choice.

Taf, What difference does it make? If you found that you bought what you thought was the exact same model of car from your local dealer six months after buying the first one and found that they had replaced the 2.0L engine with a 1.8L version, would you feel that the practice was questionable and perhaps deserved to know that the spec had been changed?

Could it be that I'm actually paying a premium for a slightly lighter box of frames? If the frames had ever been offered with an alternative top bar then I wouldn't expect the vendor to be offering anything different, but they had always been sold as 14x12 frames and that was taken to mean with a T2 top bar, by custom as that is how they had been sold previously.

Perhaps I should ask the difference between the cost of their T1 and T2 14x12 frames as they have obviously now provided both. They weren't seconds either, so they weren't a cost saving option.

I get the impression that no one actually cares and that's why now we should all be paying premium prices established for 14x12 frames with the thinner top bar. Don't say that no one mentioned it here at least.

 

[Tom Bick]

Hombre they must have given you the T1 top bars by mistake as they still do the 14x12 Frames with the thicker T2 bar as standard.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Link doesn't work. So what's the actual difference?

R2

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/bsframedesignations.html


thickness


14x12 use to be call ED5 for Extra Deep, i assume an ED1 would be possible


and Agree with Tom B, last time i popped in to Toms Hive workshop i had 50 14x12 just purchased from £hornes Windsor shop in the boot and all had T2 top bars

foundation difficult in 14x12, sorry but i think it is practice, i made frames as a boy a 1/6 per 50 and find a parallel make up jig and using wax below 18c give good result with Th**nes and KBS wax,then NAIL however M*isemore 14x12 purchase last week had the fixcng groove off centre so had to cut 1/4" off the leading corner to get the wax up to the top

 

[MuswellMetro]

meant to add,

I always pull the wax down rather than push it down that's when it distorts, I do not nail the side bars or bottom bars until after i have fixed the wax square with the fixing bar and nailed that

my jig is just two parrellel bars the exact distance of a frame width apart with cut out for hoffman sides, square every time with nails, slide in the wax flat and pull down and nail ( Jig works for Manleys as well)

wax always flat and out of sun in a room below 18c, if i do make a hash of a wax sheet, do not try to refit just use it for something else like a starter strip for a bait hive ,Top bar hive ,or Drone frame ( except SN1 frames as it i will break up in the extractor)

just made up 20 tonight with her indoors watching TV and moaning about the banging in the back room, KBS wax in £hornes all 100% no problem ( ok one finger through the wax, while trying to do it reading the forum)