The weekly inspection with all it's surprises

[Tremyfro]

Another beautiful day......hive inspection scheduled. We knew Hive 1. had some drone comb on bottom bars of brood box. Our intention was to remove it during our time rootling through the hive. All seemed well. Super really heavy today.....OH job I think. Capping going well too. In the smaller BB, which we added last week as there seemed so many bees in the BB, the Queen had laid loads of eggs. The rest of the frames were being filled with nectar. We took off the drone brood from the big BB. Not that the bees wanted us to do that...they filled up the pot along with the comb. As the supers were being filled at a rate of knots...we added another super.
Hive 2. Queen seen and she had been busy laying the 2 frames returned to the BB after taking out the honey. Both were filled with eggs, and the eggs seen in the small BB had hatched too. The play cups were not progressed and none were charged.
We went back to the house to go through the drone brood and found a number of varroa. So will put in the board to monitor....then treat with MAQS as indicated.
We also found a sealed Queen cell which had been hidden in the drone brood. Sneaky lot! There hadn't even been any play cups in this hive either. Inside the Queen cell was a small pupa and about a quarter teaspoon of Royal jelly. There weren't any other QC that we noticed....but are now feeling kinda on edge. Is it likely there would have been only one QC? Have we negated the urge to swarm by increasing the brood chamber? We are so annoyed with ourselves for not noticing last week.

 

[enrico]

If there was only one and you have added room then there is a good chance they won't build more. IMHO . However I could be wrong who knows!
E

 

[REDWOOD]

Get ready to do an AS next week

 

[Tremyfro]

We have been mulling over our options since last week....but in regard to HIve 2. As this was the hive with the play cups. Hive 1 took us by surprise. The QC was buried deeply in the drone comb. A good job we had removed it this week. Now we are worried we might have missed others. In addition, as we have only just started beekeeping.....we don't have lots of equipment waiting to be put to use. We have 2 nucleus boxes, which hold 6 frames each.
We have ordered a second paynes hive for Hive 2, as this was the hive with the Q cups...not charged. It was for back up in case we needed to do AS on HIve 2. However, as you will all know.....there is a delay on these hives ATM. We don't think we will get it in time. So thinking caps on folks! Is it best to do AS into 6 frame nucleus and transfer into full size hive in due course or is there a way of keeping all the bees together until winter decrease. Given that Hive 1 had an extra BB added last week and the Queen has been laying is this. They are on 10 frames in the main BB.

 

[Davelin]

You could put queen + two frames brood + four frames foundation + some bees into the nuc box, and fill up old box qith foundation.

Old box has to wait to raise new queen.

Nuc has room for q to lay and keeps them busy drawing foundation.

Should buy you a bit of time if nothing else.

I would only leave 1 QC in original hive or you may lose a cast swarm

 

[Erichalfbee]

Instead of an AS you could remove the queen into a three frame nuc (more if the parent hive is strong) add nurse bees and move it at least two metres away, reducing the entrance so that it can defend itself. This leaves the original hive to make a new queen and keeps it strong for production.

 

[Swarm]

How closely did you examine the frames in hive 1? You found the queen cell afterwards and it was sealed, I'd say there is more than a good chance that there are more. You saw the queen in the other hive, how about this one?

 

[Tremyfro]

That is what we are afraid of, Swarm. We saw the Queens in both hives today....both have been laying really well this past week. Hive 1 queen is last years Queen. In Hive 2 she is this years. The Queen cell was in Hive 1. The pupa was small and swimming in loads of white jelly. We had thought the pupa would be bigger...when you look at worker cells before they are sealed...the pupae are filling the cell. Anyway...we need to make a decision based on what we found. If it is a AS....do we leave the Q in the main hive, removing all QC and with only a few frames and all the foraging bees? Which, presumably, will slow down nectar collection. Or do we move the Q into the nuc with a few frames with bias...removing all QC. Making sure we leave eggs for the bees to make another Q in the main hive, with the foragers and the rest of the BIAS. Hmmmm....

 

[Tremyfro]

And.....where are Finman and Oliver....when we need their smooth analysis.

 

[enrico]

All I can say is I had a similar situation. One rogue queen cell in a hive with plenty of room and a good laying queen. It was in its initial stage in as much as it was fully charged but with small larvae at the time of being found. I removed it, swapped a couple of old frames for new ones and now they are five supers high on the same queen. No sign on new queen cells yet. All you need to be is prepared just in case at the next inspection there are more queen cells. If however you have missed other queen cells then the situation is different and you should rightly be worried! Only you know how thorough you were at your inspection!
E

 

[Tremyfro]

Yes enrico. We didn't look that closely at the last few frames....as we had seen the Queen and BIAS, all looked healthy. It was only afterwards when we found the Queen cell in the drone brood that we realised than there may have been other QC on those last 3 frames. I don't think I am going to be able to sleep this week if we don't go back into the hive to check again. I think we will leave it for the weekend and look again on Monday. The weather forecast is poor for the next few days.

 

[Swarm]

It's when you shake the bees off each frame that you find how good they are at hiding them.
Have a nuc box with you and when the queen is found, pop that frame into the nuc. Inspect the rest, shaking the bees down into the hive. If cells are found, you have the queen as insurance.

 

[Tremyfro]

Will do. Such a pity we can't leave them altogether as nectar coming in fast. Will this set them right back? I was hoping to go through this winter with just the 2 hives. Will there still be enough time for a nuc to build up.

 

[Apple]

And.....where are Finman and Oliver....when we need their smooth analysis.

Banned from adding their comments on the beginners section as they may be considered supercilious?

 

[Tremyfro]

Wow! how naughty. Their pithy advice will be missed. What about if we do a demarree instead of a AS? How do folk find that works?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If you have QC's a demarree won't usually work - it's a preemptive procedure

 

[Tremyfro]

If all the QC are removed....
My book says .....remove all QC, then following week remove all again. That is of course if there are any.
We are going to have another look through the brood box. If there aren't any QC...can we do a demarree at that point?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Banned?

No....neither are

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If all the QC are removed....
My book says .....remove all QC, then following week remove all again. That is of course if there are any.
We are going to have another look through the brood box. If there aren't any QC...can we do a demarree at that point?

Yes, as the book says you just go in regularly and remove QC's then when the bees on a frame have all emerged you can swap it with a frame full of brood from the bottom box carrying on ad infinitum until swarming fever has passed. Ideally you should have drawn comb in the bottom though.

As there was only the one QC did the thought of supersedure perhaps occur?

 

[pargyle]

Banned from adding their comments on the beginners section as they may be considered supercilious?

Don't think so ....

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30526&page=2

If more beginners listened to what RAB is saying and FOLLOWED the advice then they would rapidly become become better beekeepers. He's usually bang on the money ... often with only sketchy and contradictory information being provided by the OP.

I'm surprised the likes of RAB still continue to offer their good advice as there appears to be a core of new (and not so new) beekeepers on here who find they have a problem (often of their own making - not the bees fault), ask for advice and then, some days or weeks later, come back having, clearly, ignored the good advice they have been given, compounding the original problem !! Yet seem to continually complain about the tenor of the replies rather than the advice given ....