Swarming due to honey in brood nest

[MandF]

A quick question - I know there are several triggers for swarming, and that generally once they have decided to swarm, they need to think they have.

However, if you are sure this is "simply" down to them backfilling the brood nest with honey, ie lack of brood space, will adding more space (a super) and a slight rearrangement of the brood so there are more empty cells within the nest area (not isolated outside a frame of stores) likely defuse the instinct or not?

I have had an A/S going on one of my hives for weeks, latterly with a snelgrove and the original queen on top, waiting for the virgin to start laying and then confirming the brood is ok before uniting. This was the original plan. They had 3 supers on, and initially lots of space in the brood & half due to all the old brood having hatched in the intervening period.

Checked it 2 weekends ago (22nd) to see if the new queen was laying yet, and saw eggs. Checked it on Sunday to see if brood was ok from how capped, and found charged QCs. Because the brood area was otherwise empty up til a week ago, they have been backfilling with nectar & pollen, which I assume is the reason they want to swarm. Again. Only a couple are full, a few were ostenstibly empty apart from some stores around the edge, the rest had nectar here and there. I moved the mostly empty ones to the main brood area.

 

[beeno]

Hi MandF,
That is rather unfortunate, but a lot of them seem to be swarming mad this year. I take it you tore down the QCs. You are probably on a hiding to nothing like many other beeks. However, IMHO you probably need to put in plenty of empty combs in the middle of the brood nest to have any chance! But realistically it is probably too late. I have one colony that changed its mind, but I suspect it is only a temporary delay! Best of luck with whatever you do.

 

[MandF]

Thanks! I thought I was just getting over the swarm management disruptions and would have both my hives back operating at full capacity for the July flow.

Now I have to start again with another AS. I know it shouldnt affect the crop too much, its just hassle and extra equipment to mess about with again for another month+.

And no doubt the other hive has similar ideas too.

 

[Rich0909]

How many QC's and where? I have had supercedure cells produced in the past with a new queen, probably in my case because she was not yet up to full pheromone production as they didn't continue when I removed the first set.

Rich.

 

[steve56616]

Swarming... tell me about it Grrrrr

 

[MandF]

There were about 7 in various stages of development.

The first batch I found were on the 'other side' of a stores frame, so I was hoping it was just a pheromone issue, but then I found a few more in the section she was currently laying in.

Another issue with her is that she is hard to spot, which is going to make A/S trickier that it ought to be! Will be marking her as soon as I spot her next time.

 

[Hawklord]

I have 2 colonies that have been making charged queen cells for about 3 or 4 weeks but I keep giving them empty frames, taking away brood frames that are either full of stores or brood. I'm not sure it would make a difference but I always leave the old queen below the supers and let them make a new queen above the board.

 

[Finman]

.
If bees store nectar into brood frames, they have not enough room, or the colony is too small.

When hive makes one box capped honey, it needs two other supers where they put nectar to rippen. Otherwise they use brood frames and result is sawrming. And of course, hive is full and they cannot continue foraging.

 

[kristin..]

i whish my bees was on swarming lol whant to do a split/artficial swarm as dont really whaner do a split + there have been preatty over crowded 4 weeks but still no q/c but i do think queen is about 3 or 2nd a half thougt as they get older they are more likly 2 swarm ?

 

[beeno]

Hi Kristin,
Be careful what you wish for... It will probably happen when you are away on hols.

 

[madasafish]

i whish my bees was on swarming lol whant to do a split/artficial swarm as dont really whaner do a split + there have been preatty over crowded 4 weeks but still no q/c but i do think queen is about 3 or 2nd a half thougt as they get older they are more likly 2 swarm ?

As they get older and have not swarmed, they may not be a swarmy bee. But the queen may not last till next spring or start drone laying...

 

[MandF]

Had a quick look at my other hive, which I combined last week and have some unhatched brood on top at the moment. It is also getting backfilled.

I think I will have to switch both hives to double deep brood, and use the new deep box & foundation to AS to begin with.

If my second hive isnt building QCs - I didnt get the chance to go through the whole thing today so not sure if it is - I will make a funnel of brood in both the deeps and then alternate foundation and stores in both. Does that sound like a good idea? Vs simply putting new box of foundation underneath.

 

[kristin..]

i did think that but i thougt i had read as age gos on there more likly to whant to swarm. Was hoping to split the hive then see if that hive raises a nice queen then decid wethere to bye a new queen as ow queen atm is amazing even when roled by acident they dont sting + only use vale atm only been stung once this year which wasnt wile inspecting was wile taking coat off lol but have found smoker makes them pi*** aslo does any one els have bumble bees trye to get in there hive ?

 

[stephenpug]

i does any one els have bumble bees trye to get in there hive ?

We have got a colony of bumble bees nesting in our bay window they are no trouble so I will leave them BUT the are now starting to go into my hives especially the nucs so I have closed the entrances down but I am getting a little concerned about how hot the weather is so it may be time to think about getting rid of the bumble bees ( they are the ones robbing my hives)

 

[thebhoy]

re the bumble bees...likewise I have them trying to get into my hives and even landing on frames when doing inspection. Seen one going in early morning one day last week.
Have opened hive and found one up under the QE...bees paying no attention to it.

 

[stephenpug]

re the bumble bees...likewise I have them trying to get into my hives and even landing on frames when doing inspection. Seen one going in early morning one day last week.
Have opened hive and found one up under the QE...bees paying no attention to it.

So what is the answer
Do they do any harm robbing disease etc or do we just leave them alone
Any replies greatly appreciated