Swarming after Demaree

[DocMartin]

Although a relative newbie to beekeeping I have completed a few Demaree Vertical Splits to avoid colony increase in rapidly expanding colonies to hopefully prevent swarming. The majority have worked well but on two occasions the colonies have swarmed from the bottom box when there have only been 2 - 3 frames of brood ie still with plenty of room. Admittedly I have only inspected the top box on these occasions and have taken down the emergency queen cells. Am I missing something ? I don’t understand why they swarmed when there was still plenty of room and drawn comb available to lay in. It appears others only inspect the upper box immediately after the Demaree
I would welcome any advice from those with more experience.

 

[Erichalfbee]

How many frames of brood did you leave down there?
I leave only one
Sometimes you’re too late anyway and swarm preps are in hand only you don’t spot them. It happens

 

[user 819]

Have you been leaving her with 2 -3 combs of brood or is it new brood she has laid after the Demeree ?

 

[DocMartin]

Left her with 2 frames of BIAS and a mixture of drawn comb and foundation on either side. The swarm cells came from those frames.
Clearly I will have to check the bottom box in the future. I thought by leaving her with plenty of room she would not swarm. I do wish they would read the books and do what they should.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

better to leave her with 1 or nil frames of brood and with as much drawn comb as you can. Very infrequently they will still swarm from the bottom box regardless of what you do.

 

[DocMartin]

Noted. Thank you for the reply. It had happened previously in May and someone locally recommended putting a QX under the brood box as well as over but somehow they appear to have managed to slim her down to get her through that as well. Oh well. We live and learn!

 

[user 819]

I only leave one frame of brood and usually the one she is on, if you Demaree to late and they have it in mind to swarm they most likely will do so any way.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Noted. Thank you for the reply. It had happened previously in May and someone locally recommended putting a QX under the brood box as well as over but somehow they appear to have managed to slim her down to get her through that as well. Oh well. We live and learn!

You had a QX between bottom brood and entrance?
When did you put that on?
The same time as you did the demaree?

 

[DocMartin]

Yes I did. It was following from those with more experience than me. Nevertheless lesson learned. I will always check the bottom box in future and perhaps not leave her the ability to raise queen cells as advised above.
However despite these setbacks I am still enjoying the challenges they set up. Reassuringly a very experienced beekeeper from my local club had also demonstrated a Demaree in the weeks before and that colony swarmed also. Such is beekeeping!!

 

[user 819]

The queens thorax ( like a drone) dictates that she shouldn't pass through, the QX is likely defective.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Reassuringly a very experienced beekeeper from my local club had also demonstrated a Demaree in the weeks before and that colony swarmed also.

so when/why was the Demaree conducted? I have heard of a few of these so called experts conduct a Demaree after finding QCs. The 'advice' to put a QE under the brood box I also find the actions of a bumbling bee fiddler.

 

[user 819]

A QX under the BB is only working against a colony and simply not necessary with a Demeree.
How complete did the beek demonstarting carry out the Demeree ?

If at the time any charged QC's were seen (even an egg in a cup) then one is better peforming an A/S. QC's are easily missed even by the vigilant.

The only time I use foundation/undrawn brood comb is for a swarm, I prefer to get deep combs drawn out as supers. Though if a new beek in the first year or two drawn comb is unlikely to be had.

 

[DocMartin]

The QX was a plastic one with no obvious defects but to be honest it is all I had available at the time as a new Beek.
All noted re queen cells and need to perform A/S if suspected. Thank you for the replies. I have learned a lot. I hope others do by reading this thread

 

[Erichalfbee]

The QX was a plastic one with no obvious defects but to be honest it is all I had available at the time as a new Beek.
All noted re queen cells and need to perform A/S if suspected. Thank you for the replies. I have learned a lot. I hope others do by reading this thread

There is a good post here in the stickies explaining how to do one
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/demaree.46464/

 

[Antipodes]

so when/why was the Demaree conducted? I have heard of a few of these so called experts conduct a Demaree after finding QCs. The 'advice' to put a QE under the brood box I also find the actions of a bumbling bee fiddler.

Is this perhaps where some of the confusing advice (about doing a Demaree after finding unsealed queen cells) is coming from or am I misunderstanding the advice from David?
https://theapiarist.org/demaree-swarm-control/

 

[Curly green finger's]

Although a relative newbie to beekeeping I have completed a few Demaree Vertical Splits to avoid colony increase in rapidly expanding colonies to hopefully prevent swarming. The majority have worked well but on two occasions the colonies have swarmed from the bottom box when there have only been 2 - 3 frames of brood ie still with plenty of room. Admittedly I have only inspected the top box on these occasions and have taken down the emergency queen cells. Am I missing something ? I don’t understand why they swarmed when there was still plenty of room and drawn comb available to lay in. It appears others only inspect the upper box immediately after the Demaree
I would welcome any advice from those with more experience.

How many EQCs were in the top box ?
We’re they swarm cells I wonder

 

[Antipodes]

I must say, until I read the article, I hadn't ever considered using a Demaree to deal with a colony once queen cells were found on an inspection....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is this perhaps where some of the confusing advice (about doing a Demaree after finding unsealed queen cells) is coming from or am I misunderstanding the advice from David?

Basically David doesn't understand the mechanics of Demarree swarm control and is giving bad advice.

 

[Murox]

I must say, until I read the article, I hadn't ever considered using a Demaree to deal with a colony once queen cells were found on an inspection....

Someone will correct me……. but I think George Demaree did use his system after QC's were found but only after the swarm had flown and been recaptured. Then he would tear down all the QC's, placing all the brood in the top box and put the captured swarm back in the bottom box with foundation.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Someone will correct me……. but I think George Demaree did use his system after QC's were found but only after the swarm had flown and been recaptured. Then he would tear down all the QC's, placing all the brood in the top box and put the captured swarm back in the bottom box with foundation.

you are correct