Swarm in hive roof

[alexmartin]

morning all, newbie here so please be gentle.
have had a national hive with old drawn frames in the garden, the other weekend I noticed activity around the hive, it continued for a few days so I took a cautiouse look and foung a small grapefruit size swarm in the roofspace, no plugs in crownboard.
decided to leave them be for fear of scaring them off.
checked again to find they are building come in the roof, so made the mad decision to cut the new comb out and put into a brood frame in the broom chamber, there were some stores in the comb but didn't spot eggs.
I added a super with new foundation as I thought maybe they didn't like the old frames in the brood chamber,
as I couldn't get all the bees to move from the roof and I was concerned about loosing/hurting the queen I replaced the roof still not plugs in crownboard and hoped they would move down to the drawn comb.
a few days later they still seem to be up high in the hive, and appear to have removed the stores from their fresh comb.

is it possible they are averse to the old comb frames or mesh floor and are moving up for heat ?

any advice is much appreciated, they seem content to forage and are definitely busy. I feel I should leave them alone, but am worried I should get them out of the roof space and fit bee escapes into the crownboard to stop them going up again.
thanks for your help.

 

[enrico]

you dont want them in the roof, They will eventually stick it to the rest of the hive and you wont get it off. Make up a brood box, new or old frames and put them in there by gently breaking off the new comb they have made and shaking them in. a nuc would be a better deal with new frames, and then feed.
Not being funny but I take it they are honey bees
Get the hive set up right now so there are no problems in the future
If you want more help come back and ask. if you want to keep them properly then a bit of kit needs purchasing.
Good luck
E

 

[drex]

That is a very small swarm and they are after the heat. I would get them into a nuc , preferably poly, and feed them. For that size of swarm, even a nucs would benefit from dummying down. When they are big enough to be happy in a proper hive, seal the holes in the crown board completely. Porter Bee escapes are an abomination.

 

[alexmartin]

thanks Enrico & drex

yes most definitely honey bees. I do have an empty 5 frame Nuc, with a solid floor.
I have ordered new frames and foundation so can make up new broad frames to put in.
do I move any comb they have built with them ?
I can make up an eke to put a feeder under the roof if that would be ok ?
I assume I put the Nuc where the hive was.

 

[enrico]

You could rubber band a bit of comb to a frame if there is anything in it
Nuc where the hive was would be good

 

[alexmartin]

thanks enrico,
last time I opened the hive they were very reluctant to be shaken off the inside of the roof. assuming I move any comb they have and the queen if I can spot her to the nuc positioned where the hive was, then any bees left in the opened and moved hive will return to the original location and enter the Nuc, if this works it would seem preferable to upsetting them by scrapping them off the national hive parts ?
I am assuming they would need syrup for feed ?

 

[enrico]

Without wishing to sound d rude you would do sound a little scared of them. They can be treated quite roughly if need be. Takethe roof off and put it to one side preferably upside down. Move the old hive and put the nuc there. Each strip of wild comb will be fairly separate and by taking hold of it it will break off the roof. Have a quick look for the queen and if no sighting then you can shake the comb into the nuc. Brush most of the rest of the bees off and put the piece of comb in front of the nuc. Do this with all the bits of comb. If you do come across a queen then gently encourage her into the nuc. Finally get as many of the rest of the bees off the roof as possible. Tap it on the ground so they all fall into one corner and then drop them Inthe top of the nuc. Gently rest the nuc roof on the top. If the queen is in there they will start fanning at the entrance and any bees in the area will finally go back home.
I wish I was closer to come and help you
Feed with syrup 1:1 sugar and water will do.
E

 

[alexmartin]

A little scared ? maybe ? I guess I just need to be more confident with them.

I will get all the bits together and get stuck in and move them

thank you for the advice its very much appreciated

 

[enrico]

Good luck Alex, I live in hope that someone local will offer help, let me know how it goes. Take your time , if it is all going wrong then do what you need to put them back together in some form, go have a cup of tea and think about the next step. Relax and enjoy it. If you are sting proof they can't hurt you, and what have you got to lose?
E

 

[alexmartin]

thanks again,
you have given me a plan, I shall make up some frames for the nuc plus a super to hold the feeder, then suite up and get on with the job. Im sure by the end of it they will be safely installed in a box of some form.
thanks for wanting to help, if I get stuck I will track down the local beekeepers and beg.
Alex

 

[Bakerbee]

Being a newbee myself im not sure if this tip will help. But i recently got called to collect a swarm that was in an awkward spot so i laid a sheet on the ground under them and shook them fown fairly strongly. I then collected all edges snd moved them to nuc that id placed about 2ft of the ground on a stand. I took one edge of the sheet and tucked it under the entrance to the nuc then spread the shet out. They all marched up into the nuc over the space of about half an hour. I didnt dpot the queen but ten minutes in loads of bees fanning by the entrance. Good luck.

 

[drex]

You said in your first post that you had already put some comb into a brood frame, so you have experience. If there is any bit of comb in the roof of a fair size, I would break it off, or scrape it off the roof with my hive tool and fix into an empty brood comb with elastic bands as enrico has already suggested ( make sure you put it in the right way up) . Brush or shake or knock any loose bees into the nuc. Job done. It really is quite easy. The bees will tolerate quite a bit of banging about and be ok. The mistake you made first time round was simply leaving the holes in the crown board open, so they all moved back to the warmest ( top most) bit of the hive. I make my own crown boards and none have any holes . Those that come with the hives are simply to take the old porter bee escapes, which do not work well anyway, and are used for clearing the bees down out of the supers prior to harvest. When you get them to the size to go into a full hive put some wood or slate or glass, whatever , over the holes.

 

[alexmartin]

thanks again for all the information, the bees are now happily homed in a 6 frame wooden nuc. they currently cover 2 frames which are mostly brood with a small amount of pollen and honey. brood is in all stages from egg to sealed and I have spotted the queen. they all seem clear f parasites ans calm.
my concern is that they will struggle to fill the nuc by winter and be strong enough to get through the winter.
do I feed them syrup now to help them build up and then fondent over the winter ?
would they be better in a polynuc for the winter ?

any advice very much appreciated

 

[drex]

Do not worry. There is still plenty of time to build up to a full colony in a full size hive, and for them to gather enough to store for the winter. If there is plenty of forage available, as is the case here, I would not feed. One frame of brood when it emerges will give you three frames of bees. Feeding now you risk the brood box becoming honey ( or syrup) bound with no room for HM to lay.

 

[alexmartin]

thanks Drex, I will leave them to it