Swarm cell or Supercedure?

[birdsandbees]

okay so this is a basic one and I think I can usually tell if I'm looking at a Supercedure or play cup now but inspecting my quite full Nuc yesterday I came across two QC's on the bottom of the frames, one was well developed with heaps of Royal Jelly and a one to two day old Larva sitting on in the other was smaller but also had Royal Jelly and young larva, my initial thoughts were that being on the bottom of the frames they were swarm cells so I removed them considering the below information but I was told that that isn't necessarily the case and they could have been superceding.
here's some more detail...

They have only recently been given an extra six frames which they haven't quite drawn yet.

Every inch of the other frames is full of either capped brood, Larva or stores with pretty much no space for the queen to lay.

The Current Monarch is a 2014 bred lady.

I have had Supercedure recently in my TB Hive which went well and I now have a VERY prolific queen in there but the cells were on the face of the comb, I'm inexperienced with Frames and have been informed of the following...

With Frames that already have foundation the bees can't easily make QC's on the face of the comb so will make Supercedure cells at the bottom of them?

As there were only two QC's it is more likely that these were Supercedure cells as Swarm cells are more numerous and I should have probably left them to it?

my instincts are telling me I was right in my thinking that the lack of space for the queen to lay may have induced them into a possible swarm situation but was I right or wrong?

any thoughts very welcome

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Firstly - never take the position of the QC's to be a definitive sign of what kind oc cells the are - just had a lovely supersedure cell (definitely - I was expecting one in that hive) right on the side of a frame and have often had swarm cells near the top.
Usually I would say if you thought they were swarm cells why just remove them - but then looking at your full explanation I would have been tempted to do the same. were the two cells close together? I've had a swarm go with only three QC's this year.

 

[enrico]

My thoughts are that you never can tell what they are, all you can tell is that they are making another queen for one or other of the scenarios. I would have removed them but would do regular checks for more in the future. Then I would decide what to do! Probably risk leaving them for a supersedure.
E

 

[birdsandbees]

I thought it best to give all the relevant information so you had more of an idea, they were on two separate frames two frames apart I believe.

 

[birdsandbees]

I will inspect again before the end of the week as I am away for a week from this weekend, another reason I removed as I didn't want them swarming while I was away ( if that is what they had planned )
By then they will be into the new frames and can shift stores if they need to

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

they were on two separate frames two frames apart I believe.

sounds more like swarm cells then

another reason I removed as I didn't want them swarming while I was away

if that's the case - just taking down the QC's is seldom the answer - you have to take some kind of positive action

 

[birdsandbees]

A split my be on the cards then.

Thanks for the opinion and advice, very much appreciated

 

[Millet]

No idea but my lady friend has been breeding these for year's and she has bird's that have won the national and the Scottish national from this strain.. sorry for the hijack but i see you like Serama ..

 

[birdsandbees]

Would that be Von? Looks like her line?

I've had them since 2008 they came into the country in 2004 and Von was one of the first to have them, I don't have any of her birds but I know plenty that do, I judged them at the National last year and I'm the Club Chairman so I know most of the key breeders.

 

[GlenJ]

That's it for the bees on this thread then! I like chickens but I'm sure they have their own forum!

 

[birdsandbees]

Sorry Glen,



I'll let you know how what happens with the bees later in the week and alter my signature to avoid anyone knowing my other hobby.

 

[Millet]

Would that be Von? Looks like her line?

I've had them since 2008 they came into the country in 2004 and Von was one of the first to have them, I don't have any of her birds but I know plenty that do, I judged them at the National last year and I'm the Club Chairman so I know most of the key breeders.

 

[Millet]

That's it for the bees on this thread then! I like chickens but I'm sure they have their own forum!

Grumpy owld git.. lol

 

[GlenJ]

Grumpy owld git.. lol

None taken!

 

[The Drone Ranger]

If there are eggs elsewhere in the frames I would have taken the cells down and checked again in a couple of days to see if they started any more same as yourself

 

[birdsandbees]

Update...

Okay so back from a week away and checked the Bees to see how they were doing, I inserted some empty frames before I left and one of them is now full of young brood and eggs so queen still laying like a trooper, however, they HAVE built another QC on the face of one of the other frames, think I'll let them get on with it this time and see what happens, either a new queen going into winter ( have other colony still producing Drones) or possibly the queen and her daughter going through winter together? Either way I'll have a fresh queen come spring I guess.