Supering... some info.

[Erichalfbee]

Ahh I hadn't thought of that, but then does much comb get built between the bottom of the brood frames and the floor?

 

[Poly Hive]

LOL... that depends on the gap of course.

I realise this is not normal beekeeping but polys do have some odd features, I am still waiting for Fiman to comment on the Paradise floors but all the poly floors I have used have this well, and yes I will get a pic for you all, in which the bees can and do build comb.

In my experience it is usually drone comb which suits us rather well. Varroa in comb, hive tool used and varroa bye bye... remember varroa have an 8 times attraction to drone comb by reason of getting another "brood" cycle out of it.

Using this well saves messing about with super frames in the brood nest.

KISS comes to mind here. And yes I made my timber nat floors a bit deep for that very reason pre varroa. Drones for free, and no messing with my precious worker brood combs.

It works well, so why not try one. Make it say 50mm deep and see. Floor that is.

What have you to lose? A £3 floor?

PH

 

[drstitson]

i wouldn't imagine an 8-9mm eke having too much trouble with extra comb below super frames.

 

[Poly Hive]

Umm.

Why would you want an eke below the super?

PH

 

[Erichalfbee]

Umm.

Why would you want an eke below the super?

PH

So that foragers could fly directly in avoiding the brood box and filling up brood cells with nectar?

 

[nonstandard]

Just to throw something else into the discussion.

We (CDBKA) had a talk from, if my memory serves me correctly, Andy Wattam the National Bee Inspector. He spoke about under-supering and over-supering.

The former being the placing of empty (drawn?) supers under the filled supers which I think was to encourage the bees to fill out the top super first because of their desire to move upwards.

The latter is the practice of leaving an empty drawn super above the crown board, with the crown board hole open. The idea is that the bees will generally ignore this super, but should they run out of space below the crown board they will move up into it. The beekeeper can then on the next visit move it down below the other super(s) and add another over-super. I think the general idea is to allow for sudden nectar flows or other unforeseen circumstances and is especially handy in out apiaries and always ensures you have a good chance of having enough equipment in the apiary.

 

[Haughton Honey]

Andy Wattam the National Bee Inspector. He spoke about under-supering and over-supering.

And I hope that you listened to EVERY word that Andy muttered.

He is very very well respected and certainly knows what he's talking about.

A great guy.

 

[Hivemaker.]

An interesting thread about supering.......thank you Oxfordbee.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5529&highlight=supering+oxfordbee

 

[Poly Hive]

Under, over... I thought beekeepers paid attention...

Oh!

Niver right, wrang agin!!!!

Hmmm



PH

 

[Hombre]

Wrong about the hives obviously, sorry. So not currently a Swienty practitioner then? More Poly Hive by name, wooden box by nature. A bit of reminiscence there then. Doubtless your nucs are all poly.

. . . As to what bee I am running how do you know?

Simply because you told us so. Unless you have been a bit crap, taken your eye off the ball and let them die of course.
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1086
And then you didn't manage to sell them and took them off the market. Post #6
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1523

. . . You are stating that I do this and that and yet I am I and I am posting about what I do, so with great deference I ask you politely to not put words in my mouth.
PH

I get things wrong from time to time, but I don't put words into the mouth's of other people.
I'll spare you the BBKA dustup and double crank discussion.

Interesting that you manage to reach 20 frames of brood before getting swarm cells with Carniolan bees though. Now explaining just how you manage that would be worth it's weight in gold and save a lot of bee keepers (beeks) from a lot of swarming and having to reinvent that particular wheel for them selves.

It's alll in the name really.

 

[drstitson]

So that foragers could fly directly in avoiding the brood box and filling up brood cells with nectar?

This is one of the advantages cited for the Paradise Finnish Queen Trap that Rooftops will be offering shortly - which is essentially what is being described here - ie a shallow 3 sided eke on top of QE.

 

[drstitson]

"remember varroa have an 8 times attraction to drone comb by reason of getting another "brood" cycle out of it. "

anyone have to hand the evidence that this is actually a true preference for drone brood OR simply a sampling artefact due to the extra brood cycle meaning that drone brood will be found to contain more mites.

 

[Finman]

..
Like Poly Hive started this chain, supers must be added when the colony grows. The hive need more space even if they get no honey at all.

When honey flow is going add allways empty combs between honey and brood.

When honey flow starts, give some foundations to be drawn. It hinders swarming.

In some stage in spring colony wants to resar drones. It is a good habit to arrange empty space to bees where they draw drone combs. Otherwise they put them here and there.

The whole frame is too much. I put a medium foundation into langstroth frame. When I cut off varroa-drones, they build new combs again.

During main yield bees need room so that if you get one capped honey box, the hive needs 2 empty supers where they dry up nectar.

You may cut the drones away or you uncap in this case brood, and clean cells with garden spray. Shake water away from cells.

Holes in drone area are chalkbrood. When the bee stock is free from chalkbrood, drone area is nice and even.

.

 

[Poly Hive]

It has been taught for years, based on (I believe) research originally from Germany, where I was taught this in 92 I think it was.

Do a google. I did and here is but one.

http://www.kysu.edu/NR/rdonlyres/32F269BA-3C02-40CD-93C0-A318D070D97A/0/varroamite.pdf

Although what this has to do with supering beats me.

PH

 

[Finman]

WHY TO TAKE OFF HONEY
.
a hive on balance forage 140 kg honey in 5 weeks.
Best days were 8 kg rise a day


http://www.mtt.fi/bees/anjalankoski10.htm

Vertical axes honey kg

horizontal date during yield period.

21.7 - 4.8 bees got something but they consumed it daily


Intererestin point in statistic. iT SHOWS THAT HIVE IS TOO FULL NECTAR


date weight rise kg

11.7. ………. 5,3 ………. canola gives well, Bees hang on the wall
13.7. ………. 4,5 ………. I took one langstroth and 2 mediums away capped honey
………. ……….
14.7. ………. 7,8 ………. bees went to work from the wall
15.7. ………. 8,7 ………. where it comes from?
16.7. ………. 7,4 ………. no bees of bumble bees in red clower
………. ……….
17.7. ………. 5,5 ……….

The hive was full of honey 11.7. And bees hanged in a big cluster outside.
I took 3 box capped honey away and I gived more empty combs.

More room and the income flow jumped from 5 kg to 8 kg next day = +60%
So, it is a huge meaning do bees have enough store room in the hive, where they rippen the nectar.

.

 

[Finman]

Although what this has to do with supering beats me.

PH

Nothing. It was just talk where to grow drone brood.

I do not know anything about Paradise honey bottoms.
I use conventional solid bottoms.

 

[Poly Hive]

Ah then I will take a pic of the poly floor as used in the uk as it is different it seems.

PH

 

[Finman]

.
I just phoned to Paradise Honey owner Juhani Waara and he told that he has much new products for example to UK markets. UK national hive standard is in use in several countries, like Norway, Spain etc.

Langstroth has a little bit variations in different countries like in Russia versus USA.

 

[nonstandard]

And I hope that you listened to EVERY word that Andy (Whattam) muttered.

He is very very well respected and certainly knows what he's talking about.

A great guy.

He's back with us on Friday to do a talk on 'the 20 minute beekeeper' - my wife will be pleased