splits in spring

[Cuckmere couple]

when splitting colonies to exapnd

how many frames of bees/brood do you need to give a newly introduced mated queen as a minimum?

some poeple say as low as 1 but does 2-3 work?

 

[thedozzer]

we are thinking of doing the same thing with our colony, but getting a new queen from Ged Marshall and on their web site and from the books i have read, a minimum of 2/3 frames of brood seems to be the recommendation + 2/3 of stores, but i suppose it depends on the size of the frames = brood patches. as we have 12 x14 Nat so the brood area could be much larger than a standard Nat.
But i am only going on what i have read & been told.
hopefully a responsible adult will be along with a more experienced answer.

 

[Poly Hive]

2/3 will work fine. It's how I kick mine off.

PH

 

[Walrus]

This is a good article by Randy Oliver modelling nuc build-up depending on size & type of nuc (laying queen, QC etc)
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/modeling-nuc-buildup/

As he says at the end it all depends on your area and your local flows, and your objectives, as to the best times to make up nucs. In his area bees come back from the almonds in March very strong & they shake them (make splits) as part of swarm control, and there is time for them to build up to catch the Summer flow.

In my case "splits in Spring" isn't a great idea because I want my bees to make honey first, then I can make up nucs later on. But in my case my nucs will be going into the Winter as strong nucs. They become productive hives in the following year.

If you just want to make loads of bees and don't care too much about honey then the optimal time would most likely be when the bees are about to swarm, which in my case is May/June.

 

[Curly green fingers]

2/3 will work fine. It's how I kick mine off.

PH

Would that be 2/3 brood two of stores for a 6 frame nuc that's what I did last year ?

 

[Swarm]

My own preference for introducing queens is two or three of sealed/emerging brood and the bees on them, stores (pollen, honey) and a free comb to make a six frame nuc. No rush to do this allows flying bees to go home, leaving young bees in the nuc. Once it is set up, I move it to its location and add the queen.

 

[Poly Hive]

For introducing a queen then as Swarm says.

If using a cell then it really makes little odds.

PH

 

[Curly green fingers]

My own preference for introducing queens is two or three of sealed/emerging brood and the bees on them, stores (pollen, honey) and a free comb to make a six frame nuc. No rush to do this allows flying bees to go home, leaving young bees in the nuc. Once it is set up, I move it to its location and add the queen.

How long did you leave it Steve before you moved it to its location , was this in the same apairy.

 

[Swarm]

Only around ten minutes..ish, leave them open. You can give each frame a gentle shake if you like, this usually dislodges foragers but I don't bother. You can put your brood comb in a box over an excluder and allow nurse bees to move up to them.

I just like to make sure they are young bees and emerging bees if I am going to introduce a bought in queen.

 

[Millet]

How long did you leave it Steve before you moved it to its location , was this in the same apairy.

I did four last year the same as Steve and they all worked well..i did not leave them very long before introducing the Queens though..once i had what i wanted in the nuc's i went and had a quick cuppa and then popped the plastic tab from the Queen cage and placed them in the Nuc's..the nucs where placed only 25yards away so any flying bees would have quickly went back to where they came from..

Edited to add.. not in Spring by the way if i remember correct it will have been around August time.

 

[Anduril]

I split one hive into 6 last spring using 2 frames for each, my maths is correct as it was on double brood and had chalkbrood, although when it was time to split, they had very little chalkbrood. The split I left in the original position had all the foragers and it produced 30 pounds of honey. Split at the end of May.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks all

very useful

Anduril...did any of the nucs you made produce honey that year?

I had an overwintered nuc from pay...es and it was a full 6 frame nuc at very end of May and it also produced 30 llbs

im still new and have only split when swarm cells appeared

this spring, hopefully ill have 3 colonies (post winter) though ll in single nationals and was thinking of leaving two for honey and splitting the 3rd

was trying to figure if i bought laying queens, how many nucs i could safely make from the 3rd colony (could probably afford a frame or two from the other two also if needed)

any advice very welcome

 

[Anduril]

thanks all

very useful

Anduril...did any of the nucs you made produce honey that year?

I had an overwintered nuc from pay...es and it was a full 6 frame nuc at very end of May and it also produced 30 llbs

im still new and have only split when swarm cells appeared

this spring, hopefully ill have 3 colonies (post winter) though ll in single nationals and was thinking of leaving two for honey and splitting the 3rd

was trying to figure if i bought laying queens, how many nucs i could safely make from the 3rd colony (could probably afford a frame or two from the other two also if needed)

any advice very welcome

The split I left in the original position had all the foragers and it produced 30 pounds of honey. Split at the end of May.

2 frames of brood, nurse bees and foragers

 

[Cuckmere couple]

thanks for that

how did the splits fare which didnt have the foragers and were started with two frames of brood...did they also produce?

 

[Anduril]

thanks for that

how did the splits fare which didnt have the foragers and were started with two frames of brood...did they also produce?

The others built up well and heavy for the winter, no surplus.

 

[Millet]

One tip i have remembered is place the Queen cage when adding bought in Queens... side way's instead of up and down..if you go up and down so to speak the candy plug can leak out the bottom a bit quicker than planned...

 

[Ian123]

certainly in my area i would expect an april splits with purchased queens to produce honey even in a very average season.....a simple trick is to add in frames of sealed brood from other nucs or colonies. so if you make up 10 nucs use half to feed in sealed brood frames to the other half. full sized hives will happily miss a frame or 2 so use what you have..its amazing how quickly you can bump up the colony size

 

[Cuckmere couple]

sorry Ian

i dont understand this bit

'so if you make up 10 nucs use half to feed in sealed brood frames to the other half.'

but from our three we do want to increase by a few and happy to use a frame or two from the two hives we are not splitting

 

[Angry_Mob]

sorry Ian

i dont understand this bit

'so if you make up 10 nucs use half to feed in sealed brood frames to the other half.'

but from our three we do want to increase by a few and happy to use a frame or two from the two hives we are not splitting

Say you make up two nucs, use nuc 1 as as a brood factory to bolster nuc 2 so it becomes a full sized colony quicker that is capable of honey production rather than the two nucs building up slowly and missing the flows.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

ah

get it

a brood donor nuc

presume (if you get it right) you can do that and still have the donor colony survive the winter