spilting a hive

[Mikeb123]

I know it's early but just going over my notes from my first year ready for spring.

Im pretty sure this is right but please disagree or add if your thoughts are different.

Spilting a hive after finding a capped queen cell..

• move the old hive to the side (entrance facing opposite way to new nuc box entrance
•put new nuc box in old hive location entrance facing the same as original hive
• put old queen in nuc box with 2 frames of stores/pollen and 3 of brood in all stages
• put capped cell in old hive central with remaining frames around her
•make sure no queen cells go in with old queen/nuc box
•flying bees from old hive come out and go into nuc that way new queen cannot swarm but leaves her with house bees
•check to see if queen has emerged a week later. Leave for 3 weeks to get mated and laying
•rehouse nuc

 

[Oscarmonster]

The numbers of flying bees returning to the nuc will surely overwhelm it.
Assuming the queen cell has been made on a swarming impulse you would be better giving them a box full of foundation, moving across only the frame with the queen on. Otherwise their swarming desire will not be be removed.
Oh and normally we are looking for uncapped queen cells, in many circumstances if you find a capped queen cell the horse has already bolted.
It's the old queen who would swarm, the new one would replace her assuming you only left one queen cell.

 

[Mikeb123]

ok so am I better off using a hive apposed to a nuc and filling the gaps in both hives with foundation?

Providing I believe the cell has been made on a swarm impulse would you move the cell across once an egg is found in it?

 

[enrico]

Oscar is right
Are you trying to split your hive or are you doing swarm control? Or both at the same time?
Splitting your hive can be done any time when they are strong but if you are doing an artificial swarm then you do it when you see uncapped queen cells. Only move the queen with her frame to the new box on the old site, all the flyers return to her and she thinks she has swarmed. The old box on the new site now only has young and nurse bees and they also think she has swarmed. Get rid of all but one or two queen cells, preferably leave one or two that have charged but are not capped. If you are doing swarm control then recombine using the new queen later in the year. If you want more hives then leave as they are, if you are splitting for more hives then you can do that whenever you want and don't need queen cells, they will make them when you split them or you can buty in new queens
Subtle difference between splitting and swarm control that you need to understand!
At least you are thinking ahead. Not get all the kit you need ready before the day comes!
E

 

[enrico]

ok so am I better off using a hive apposed to a nuc and filling the gaps in both hives with foundation?

Providing I believe the cell has been made on a swarm impulse would you move the cell across once an egg is found in it?

You will only have one gap in the old hive, the new hive needs all new foundation except for the frame with the queen. The queen cell stays with the old hive. Think about it.... You are trying to fool the whole hive into thinking they have swarmed. Old queen old bees.....new queen new bees
E

 

[Mikeb123]

Thanks Enrico great advise. I do want more hives this year but yes was trying to do both at once

 

[pargyle]

.... the new hive needs all new foundation except for the frame with the queen. The queen cell stays with the old hive. Think about it.... You are trying to fool the whole hive into thinking they have swarmed. Old queen old bees.....new queen new bees
E

Or, dare I say it, try foundationless and just give them a couple of frames either side of your transferred comb and dummy the hive down to that size (Less empty space for them to heat and rear brood). Feed them to give them a hand to start building comb and give them a bit of a start. Be ready to drop more empty frames in as they start to fill the combs up, they will really go off like a shot as they will want new cells for the queen to lay in.

 

[oliver90owner]

To the OP

No. Refer to the padgen method and rewrite your notes.

Place old box with opening in the same direction adjacent to original position
Place new box of frames on the original position
Find queen and place her on a frame with open brood, but with no queen cells, and place the frame in the new box by exchanging one of the central frames.
Reduce the number of queen cells in the old box to two open cells (one, if you didn't want any insurance).
Place any supers above the Q/E on the original site. If no super(s) with adequate stores, then exchange one or two frames of stores from the old box.
Feed the old box if stores are low.
Check for new queen cells after 6 days in old box, earlier (3 days?) in the box with the queen, and destroy (as long as no insurance is required).

Swap the old box to the opposite side of the artificially swarmed queen 7 days after the first queen cell is capped - not specifically needed if no 'insurance' queen cell was left).

Simple common sense, comprehensive instructions which aim to achieve the desired end result - two colonies without any further swarming.

Further feeding may be necessary, dependent on the flow, of course. But that is normal beekeeping practice. Same with more queen cells produced in the old queen part; if none, OK, if some were found you make further
checks.

Think about the target outcome. Old queen has a strong entourage, but must not be allowed to swarm for real. Flying workers will normally be collecting sufficient food for wax building or be doing the wax building, so needed with the old queen, not in a hive where cell space will increase as brood emerges. Swapping the old box to the other side after 7 days further reduces the flying bees giving less risk of a cast swarm.

Giving the queen several frames of brood and stores does not really emulate swarming - you might just as well call that weakening the colony!

Now seen enricos post. Pretty good. Splitting is another process where yoe want to encourage queen cell building without necessarily being in swarm mode.

Ic I have missed out any tricks, please add them; it's ages since I've done one but all common sense simple beekeeping, really. All about hedging bets and avoiding unwanted
outcomes.

RAB

 

[Moggett]

Don't forget to monitor stores.

I would feed the old queen colony to help comb building, and the queen cell colony if light on stores.

** posted at same time as ^^

 

[mbc]

Don't forget to monitor stores.

I would feed the old queen colony to help comb building, and the queen cell colony if light on stores.

** posted at same time as ^^

As RAB pointed out in his previous post ( good one too ), with the classic Pagden AS the supers go with the old queen, so any advice to feed them, though valid if they're short on stores and little coming in, should come with weighty caveats to avoid getting sugar syrup in the supers IMHO.

 

[Moggett]

As RAB pointed out in his previous post ( good one too ), with the classic Pagden AS the supers go with the old queen, so any advice to feed them, though valid if they're short on stores and little coming in, should come with weighty caveats to avoid getting sugar syrup in the supers IMHO.

I was only highlighting the need to monitor stores as nice weather can be a false security to the inexperienced. I was not saying feed if you have full supers on! I did assume this would be obvious!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Exactly - especially the 'old' hive which in an A/S situation would have the brood frames packed full of err, brood not stores - and you've taken all the supers away to put on the 'new' hive

 

[Arfermo]

Spilting a hive after finding a capped queen cell..

The Novemeber 2013 BBKA News had an article by Ken Basterfield that would be worth your while reading.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You could do worse than read this

 

[Mikeb123]

Thanks that's good reading for a newbee

 

[priono]

You could do worse than read this

great leaflet

 

[Itchy]

Yes, thanks, great leaflet